Can neighbour ask us to move a retaining wall?

diystarter7

To be clear, the wall is on the exact boundary as before on the next doors side and because it is is thicker, the extra is on your side therefore next has lost no land whatsover?

diystarter7

Btw as at least one has said, it is not shared responsibility if the deeds clearly state it is your responsibility.

Section62

diystarter7 said:

Btw as at least one has said, it is not shared responsibility if the deeds clearly state it is your responsibility.

If there is a legal agreement which says the retaining wall is the OP's responsibility then yes.

Is that what the 'deeds' state though?

Probably not, from what the OP has said.

arielsmelody

In response - yes our proposal is to rebuild the wall so that on the neighbours side it remains in exactly the same position. And our deeds do specify that we need to maintain a fence but no mention of a wall (which I suspect means that it was built after the houses were constructed and the owners were adding patios & garages etc)

diystarter7

arielsmelody said:

In response - yes our proposal is to rebuild the wall so that on the neighbours side it remains in exactly the same position. And our deeds do specify that we need to maintain a fence but no mention of a wall (which I suspect means that it was built after the houses were constructed and the owners were adding patios & garages etc)

Thank you.
One of our children has a det house that is about 4 feet higher that next door. However, the responsibly of the fence is of that of next doors unlike your case. However, I said to him I thought the land was slightly slipping and he may need a retaining wall and we bought agreed that most likely he'd pay as it was his land that was slipping.

Therefore as the fence was yours in this case and your house is higher, to be frank, I'd expect you to pay for all of it

Sorry for being very thick but why is he insisting you move it back from the orginal line.

Good luck as falling out with next door even when its not yuor fault is not nice.
Take care.

arielsmelody

And thank you - trying to explain it to you and hearing your responses is definitely helping me to clarify my thoughts!

Section62

arielsmelody said:

And thank you - trying to explain it to you and hearing your responses is definitely helping me to clarify my thoughts!

I would, in the politest possible terms, suggest that you treat diystarter7's advice with a  great deal of caution.  They do appear to have a remarkably high number of situations in which their children or other family members have problems very similar to those people posting on the forum are asking for advice on.  How anybody's family can be so unfortunate is worrying, and I feel a great amount of sympathy for them.

However, you should check the "How this site works" section which appears on most forum pages and note particularly the comment "Always remember anyone can post on the MSE forums".  In my experience people posting 'advice' on the internet don't need to be knowledgeable, and don't always give accurate information.

For example -

diystarter7 said:

Therefore as the fence was yours in this case and your house is higher, to be frank, I'd expect you to pay for all of it

 - although that might be what diystarter7 might expect if they were your neighbour, it in no way represents 'advice' on what the legal situation may be in your case.

Who owns and is responsible for the boundary fence doesn't dictate who is responsible for a retaining wall below it.  The neighbour might expect that you should "pay for it all", but that alone doesn't make you responsible for the wall and liable to pay the full cost.

Noting your reluctance to go 'legal', you do need to be aware of the ramifications if you choose to take on responsibility for the wall if that isn't the current legal position.  For example, if the replacement wall is in any way defective, the responsibility for putting it right (again) will rest solely with you.

Furthermore the question of responsibility/liabilty for the wall will be placed further onto you by moving it further onto your property.  If there is a future dispute the neighbour would be able to claim - quite properly - that you chose to rebuild the wall, and willingly decided to put it wholly on your land.

jonnydeppiwish!

I think, if I were in your position op, I’d  be looking into the legal protection advice route. If you house was built first and by a different developer then it’s quite possible it’s actually your neighbour’s responsibility.

Then they need to pay to replaced - plus you can ask the to move it fully into their side….

As already stated but others much more knowledgeable, one you do the work then you kind of accept it’s your responsibility.

Bendy_House

It is very common for deeds to indicate a boundary 'responsibility', and this is often accompanied by T marks along the relevant boundary. The wording in the deeds is the important part, and - again, usually - this just indicates a general 'responsibility' for that boundary. It is designed to gently encourage/persuade folk to keep at least once fence/wall/boundary in good order, so that folk can get on with their lives in neighbourly harmony. But, unless it specifically states what you MUST do with that boundary, legally there is little/nothing that can done by the other party to force the issue. If your fence falls down and you don't want to erect a new one, then that's tough for the neighb (unless, say, you have a dog that needs keeping within your garden). Not nice to not fix yer fence, of course, but them's the facts.

From what you've said, Ariel, what is written in your deeds would appear to be just this general clause. It carries no actual 'obligations'. And - more importantly - it makes no reference to a 'retaining wall'.

So, the fact that this boundary is your 'responsibility' has no bearing whatsoever on this retaining wall.

From what you have described, on balance of probabilities, the current retaining wall was built by the neighbour's builder, for the purpose of providing a level plot for their house. Ie - it is theirs. It was put there for their benefit. It is their responsibility.

In the to-be-avoided-at-almost-all-costs event that this went 'legal', then your neighbour would almost certainly have an extremely hard - nigh-on impossible, imo - task persuading the adjudicator that this wall was anyone else's but theirs. It's fully on their land. It was built by their predecessor's builder. It matches their house's brickwork.

Have a chat with your LP and discuss this.

Then have a chat with your neighbour.

Q - what do you want as an outcome? Is it solely to not lose more than 4" of garden space? If so, that's very kind of you. You are 'happy' to pay for this whole wall, and lose 4+" of garden? Wow But you'd be slightly nutty. Especially if the neighbour is anything other than falling-over-themselves in gratitude, and a wee bit hard up.

Or, would it be more fair for you to equally split the cost of this wall with your neighbour, and straddle the boundary, so you spend only half the amount, and lose only 4+"? (Getting 'fair', and still kind of you)*.

Or, do you feel, soddit - they can pay for it ALL, AND build it ALL on their side?! Because, there's a very good chance that this is what it could come down to.

Get your legal advice, approach your neighbour, "You'll neffer guess what I just found out...  "

Then you can set up the compromise you are prepared to agree with. But the neighb should start from the very possible situation that, if they continue to be an 'ole, they can sort it all out themselves.

*50:50 sounds good to me, as you are now also benefitting from this wall, as very likely your garden has 'levelled' itself to some degree, and is now higher against that wall than it would have been pre-wall. BUT, I wouldn't let this neighbour take the mick - as they almost certainly have done so far.

Folk often advise against falling out with neighbours, and I concur. It is important, tho', to also 'know' your neighbour, and not to let them take advantage. At the moment, this neighbour might genuinely just be a bit naive. They might be interpreting the boundary 'responsibility' in the deeds as meaning "this is all yours, pal, wall an' all". In which case, they require correcting. How they respond to this new information will speak volumes, and this is when you get to know the calibre of the people involved. If it's denial, bolshiness, threats of litigation, then there's your answer - and you will never have a pint with these folk, or invite them to a BBQ. That is who they are, and it's as well you've found this out. You will be calm and reason, "You really expect me to pay for the whole wall AND lose a strip of land for something that isn't mine? Really?"

Ath_Wat

arielsmelody said:

Our house is higher than next door. When the houses were built 60 years ago the neighbour built a wall along his side of the boundary which is the retaining wall for our garden. This wall was too thin and is failing, and the current neighbour has asked us to rebuild it. The deeds say that boundary is our responsibility so we agreed. We planned to build a new wall twice as thick but with the extra on our side so on his side nothing would change. He is now asking us to rebuild completely on our land so that he reclaims the strip that the old wall stood on. Does he have any right to ask that? Space is tight on our side and we are already losing the space due to the extra thickness of the new wall.

Surely your first question would be "Why do you think I should do that?"  If it was, what did he say?  If it wasn't, ask him.