Civil Enforcement Climping Beach

hullogullo

Hi, 

Sorry if I could have worked this out for myself from some of the sticky threads, but if anyone has the time to advise it would be very helpful.

Climping Beach have recently installed a new parking system with Civil Enforcement. An elderly family member who has been to the beach only once before was expecting to pay on the gate, but now they have a system where you are supposed to ring up to pay for parking or use a parking app that I'd never heard of before. They were unable to get either of these to work and were getting quite flustered when I arrived.

We discovered reasonably quickly that there was also parking meter at the far end of the car park, that was not signposted at all. They went to use this, but were told that it was out of order by someone else trying to use the machine.

I went to try it for myself and managed to get it working (it wasn't out of order, but it was behaving quite temperamentally), and bought us both tickets for two hours stay.

We left with good time to spare on the ticket, but they had arrived a little earlier than I had realised (a period in which they were doing nothing other than getting flustered by the new system), so have ended up overstaying by 20mins on the allocated ticket time.

They've now been sent a £100 (£60 if paid early) parking fine for this extra 20mins, which seems wholly unreasonable, and I would like to try to help them to get out of doing so (I also feel some responsibility as the ticket purchaser).

Could I get a couple of pointers on getting this overturned.

Many thanks!

Umkomaas

Could I get a couple of pointers on getting this overturned.

1. Start be reading the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post, where you will find the early steps to getting this overturned. 

2. Send off initial appeal using the unaltered blue text template from the above thread.  Do not do it 'on behalf of', it must be done in the name of the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. 

3. Complain to the landowners, asking them to cancel the charge. 

There you go, 3 for the price of 2! 🤫

hullogullo

Thank you!

Can I just check (sorry to be a bit helpless here, but the NEWBIES FAQ is a pretty deep dive at this point):

I should be sending this - as the owner of the vehicle (so providing all required details such as name and postcode) - while being careful to admit no responsibility for driving - and ideally via the online appeal, rather than by post?:

"Re PCN number xxxx:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner."


I'm not quite sure the legal angle that I'd be waggling at them here if I send this, but I trust that whoever wrote this guide does!

Thanks again!

KeithP

How many blue text template appeals did you find in the NEWBIES thread?  

Le_Kirk

You send it as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle, i.e. the vehicle that received the PCN.  Obviously you must supply the RK's details and do be careful of any drop-down boxes that are known to default to "driver" if you are not watchful.

Coupon-mad

Climping Beach have recently installed a new parking system with Civil Enforcement.

OMG why have the owners of Climping Beach done this? Lovely beach. That'll drive people away for good.  Stupid decision.

Anyway, this is all covered by the NEWBIES thread, including PLAN A - find out who owns it and complain that older people are being marginalised by an unworkable system.  Do not call it an appeal.  COMPLAIN and give the PCN number, and ask them to cancel it and review this ill-advised and horrifically litigious system and the conduct of these ex-clampers, who will drive visitors away for good.

Ask the owners in this complaint, how long the consideration period is that they've set to download the app, because it takes even a younger person over ten minutes on arrival, especially with an unsignposted hidden machine which is also proving temperamental.

State that you sincerely hope they didn't just delegate all that to the rogue ex-clampers because the industry minimum consideration period of five minutes is never going to be anywhere near fair at this busy site with fluctuating phone signals and an unreliable single ticket machine hidden at the far end.

Don't rush the farce of the appeal to CEL.

DO NOT DO THAT FIRST.  FO NOT DO THE APPEAL ANYTHING LIKE YET.

Was the PCN received within 14 days and does it have words about the keeper becoming liable - or not?

hullogullo

So I shouldn't appeal on the website with the blue text template straight away then? (Even more confused now!)

In the small print there is some stuff that sounds like they're suggesting that the responsibility may fall on the owner: "the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver..."

Coupon-mad - I've PM'd you a scan of the back of the letter, if that helps at all?

Looking at recent tripadvisor reviews, it looks like lots of people have been caught out by this, and it also looks like those that have tried to appeal it have been told that it's a strict 10min from parking up to buying a ticket:

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g504216-d4763228-Reviews-Climping_Beach_Cafe_and_Car_Park-Bognor_Regis_Arun_District_West_Sussex_England.html

"They rejected my claim stating I didn’t pay within 10 mins of arrival!!"

Umkomaas

So I shouldn't appeal on the website with the blue text template straight away then? (Even more confused now!)

You have 28 days to send the appeal, so there's time to complain to the landowner and try to get a cancellation. Use some of that time to try to avoid even having to put in an appeal. Nothing to be confused about. 

Does the NtK mention the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4)?  Date of parking event? Date of Issue/Sending? shown on the NtK?  

Please don't PM - I only comment on open posts/threads.

hullogullo

Does the NtK mention the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4)?  Date of parking event? Date of Issue/Sending? shown on the NtK?  

Yes to each and all of the above


Any idea how I might go about finding out who the landowner is?

(Have to say this sounds like a real long shot as an approach! But maybe there's a precedent here for landowners being lovely people who go out of their way to help overturn parking fines for land that they've permitted cowboys to run parking rackets on! 😆) 

Umkomaas

Sorry if my questions were not that clear. I was asking what the date of the parking event was, and what was the date of the issue of the NtK. 

Any idea how I might go about finding out who the landowner is? 

SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

hullogullo

Umkomaas said:

Sorry if my questions were not that clear. I was asking what the date of the parking event was, and what was the date of the issue of the NtK. 

My apologies - date of the incident 11th June - issue date 16th June