Are governments powerless ?

ABFG

As @MattMattMattUK says the only solutions are long term. Energy (+ fuel and food) are not discretionary spend, up to a certain level, so rising interest rates will have a limited impact only on demand. Increasing money supply will help those who get the most help but will also increase inflation. The answer is to find 'a way' to drive down energy costs.

This to me has always been nuclear. Large scale nuclear, in 10-15 years we could have ample capacity and if run correctly could be used to hold down prices (or sell to abroad at high prices to subsidise the UK). No reason why there can't be a massive program of solar on roofs as well to reduce need for central generation to heat water and maybe charge cars, at least for the sunnier months. This longer term thinking is unfortunately not in high demand in recent years - the benefits, substantial as they are, take too long to show.

Alnat1

I believe in France there's a recent ruling that all commercial new builds have to have a green roof or put solar panels on. Imagine how much that would help here with the huge industrial units that are going up everywhere.

agentcain

1) The government could reduce Fuel duty and VAT on fuel to an extend where there's no tax hole. Currently, they are earning more tax than previously predicted. Reducing these two will bring down the price considerably.

2) There's already a war going on. You might have the safety of your couch and a warm meal with no overhead bombs flying, but don't think that you are not fighting a war. Sometimes a sudden death can be much preferable than a slow economical one. No one should go to war though. But Putin did it and mostly for financial reasons. 

3) Energy diversity. Stop burning gas because its "greener", start having as many power sources as possible

4) Disconnect the energy price from the most expensive source price. Gas should not set the price for all power, just a proportion of it. Allow companies to sell the fuel mix they want. Allow people to select if they want mostly gas, solar, wind, coal, nuclear, tidal, whatever. 

5) Stop false marketing. "All green energy, renewable" is green washing by most companies. Stop that. 

6) Target work from home as an available option. Stop putting out the "return to the office" as a slogan. Most savings can be made on commuting. Cut that thing down.

The_Green_Hornet

The governments of the late nineties early noughties should have invested heavily in non-fossil fuels but then hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Deleted User]

agentcain said:

 Allow people to select if they want mostly gas, solar, wind, coal, nuclear, tidal, whatever. 

Great in theory but not in practice. We operate national grids for electricity and gas. There is absolutely no way that an individual supplier can provide its customers with green energy at the point of use. By signing up to, say, a Good Energy tariff all you are doing is (a) contracting with the supplier to match your kWh usage with a green energy input into the Grid and (b) increasing the percentage of truly green energy on the Grid. Choice would be great but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

MattMattMattUK

agentcain said:

1) The government could reduce Fuel duty and VAT on fuel to an extend where there's no tax hole. Currently, they are earning more tax than previously predicted. Reducing these two will bring down the price considerably.

The thing is we have the highest national debt since WWII, we are still running a substantial deficit, tax cuts would probably be popular, but do not make economic sense.

agentcain said:

2) There's already a war going on. You might have the safety of your couch and a warm meal with no overhead bombs flying, but don't think that you are not fighting a war. Sometimes a sudden death can be much preferable than a slow economical one. No one should go to war though. But Putin did it and mostly for financial reasons. 

We are not going to have a sudden death in war (in my opinion) and we are not having a slow economic death either. Putin did it to distract from how disastrous his rule of Russia has been and the Russian population has fallen for it, just as the British public fell for Brexit. Creating an external enemy/threat is a classic distraction technique for failing governments. 

agentcain said:

3) Energy diversity. Stop burning gas because its "greener", start having as many power sources as possible

Better to burn gas than coal as we should not ignore the climate impact even with the energy issues we are currently having. Even better use fission or wind power and long term use fusion.

agentcain said:

4) Disconnect the energy price from the most expensive source price. Gas should not set the price for all power, just a proportion of it. Allow companies to sell the fuel mix they want. Allow people to select if they want mostly gas, solar, wind, coal, nuclear, tidal, whatever. 

There is not enough detail in the supply to allow people to choose. The reality is the market sets the prices (on the wholesale market) and is very efficient at doing this. If we want to alter that then we need to build enough production capacity to influence the market, something which is well within the ability of a willing UK government.

agentcain said:

5) Stop false marketing. "All green energy, renewable" is green washing by most companies. Stop that. 

I agree, but the problem is people like green washing, they would rather pretend they are changing their behaviour, than actually change their behaviour.

agentcain said:

6) Target work from home as an available option. Stop putting out the "return to the office" as a slogan. Most savings can be made on commuting. Cut that thing down.

Most companies where it is a reasonable option already are. I have a fairly diverse range of corporate clients and all where their business allows (eg. healthcare cannot WFH) are either hybrid or fully WFH.

MattMattMattUK

The_Green_Hornet said:

The governments of the late nineties early noughties should have invested heavily in non-fossil fuels but then hindsight is a wonderful thing.

We knew back then we should be investing in nuclear and emerging renewable technology (especially the development side), but the government/electorate chose lower taxes, more free money and short-termism rather than pragmatic investment. 

agentcain

MattMattMattUK said:

agentcain said:

1) The government could reduce Fuel duty and VAT on fuel to an extend where there's no tax hole. Currently, they are earning more tax than previously predicted. Reducing these two will bring down the price considerably.

The thing is we have the highest national debt since WWII, we are still running a substantial deficit, tax cuts would probably be popular, but do not make economic sense.

agentcain said:

3) Energy diversity. Stop burning gas because its "greener", start having as many power sources as possible

Better to burn gas than coal as we should not ignore the climate impact even with the energy issues we are currently having. Even better use fission or wind power and long term use fusion.

agentcain said:

4) Disconnect the energy price from the most expensive source price. Gas should not set the price for all power, just a proportion of it. Allow companies to sell the fuel mix they want. Allow people to select if they want mostly gas, solar, wind, coal, nuclear, tidal, whatever. 

There is not enough detail in the supply to allow people to choose. The reality is the market sets the prices (on the wholesale market) and is very efficient at doing this. If we want to alter that then we need to build enough production capacity to influence the market, something which is well within the ability of a willing UK government.

The national debt is of no concern to the average citizen. A lot of choices were made were money was wasted, like the PPE fiasco, the useless track'n'trace app or the quarantine hotel approach during C19 to name a few. Little benefit came from signage too, which is another added cost. I would also add the furlough scheme, but some people disagree. I think it was an awful idea, right up there with the ventilator PR. BJ should also be held accountable for a lot of things, including the "350m/week fund the NHS" lie. Remember this? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1218703/boris-promises-cheaper-household-gas-bills-if-brits-back-brexit/ Assuming TheSun is being accurate, this needs to be addressed. Brexit caused the drop of Sterling and that in turn increased our costs. I suggest a special tax on Brexiteers. They can have control and pay extra for it. I know I wasn't even allowed an opinion on this, even though I was more affected by it compared to the average joe, who's benefits I'm paying for.


Burning gas instead of coal in little UK will make no significant climate improvement when countries like the US and China leave a bigger carbon footprint. Not the "per capita" strawman argument. In total. We're causing our own misery just to virtue signal and sleep better at night, when across the globe they are stocking up on coal to burn.


I'm mostly talking about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mp0aYN76PM . Wholesale prices. Then allow consumers to choose how they want, mostly on cost I assume but it will always be that way. Right now, we're paying for a green lie.