Am I asking too much from Shell Energy?

prowla

kroggy said:

MWT said:

kroggy said:

I simply want bills to match up with the reads and to provide the reads on the first of the month.

If I have understood correctly, Shell want to bill you on the 7th of the month and request a meter reading which you provide a few days before that, so they estimate the difference and bill you to the 7th each month.

If you gave them the meter reading on the 7th I would imagine there would be no estimation...

I certainly understand your desire to be billed for exact calendar months, but it isn't something willingly offered by most suppliers as they do need to spread the workload over the month and there can be reasons why the exact billing date may have move at times.

Any error in the estimate will be corrected the following month as your estimated closing meter reading becomes the opening reading for the next month.

So to answer your initial question, yes, you are asking too much from Shell.

No you have not understood correctly.  I will spell it out again as you seem to have a difficulty grasping was has been said on several occasions above.

Shell Energy want to bill be for 37 days at a time.

I have to say I'm having difficulty understanding...

They're not going to bill bou for 37 days at a time (ie. ongoing).

However, if you go to "Account summary" and then "Edit payment amount" you can change your scheduled payment date; I don't know if that changes the bill date, though.

Ah, it doesn't; however, I noticed that my bill date is the 4th and my payment date was the 14th, so they're sitting on my money for up to 3 weeks a month; I've changed it to the 3rd.

[Deleted User]

As the OP has categorically stated that they won't be posting a copy of the bill(s) issued by Shell due to privacy issues (their perogative) I'm afraid most, if not all, of the respondants to this thread like myself, prowla and others have found the whole sequence of events (as posted by the OP) difficult to understand.

So good luck to the OP but as a dragon would say 'I'm out'

kroggy

prowla said:

I have to say I'm having difficulty understanding...

They're not going to bill bou for 37 days at a time (ie. ongoing).

However, if you go to "Account summary" and then "Edit payment amount" you can change your scheduled payment date; I don't know if that changes the bill date, though.

Ah, it doesn't; however, I noticed that my bill date is the 4th and my payment date was the 14th, so they're sitting on my money for up to 3 weeks a month; I've changed it to the 3rd.

It is not the payment date that concerns me but the dates used in the period within the bill, how this does not correspond with the periods of the reads and how they are adding 7 days and set the read to estimated.

I cannot say if they are going to do thing moving forward because they have produced an awful bill which consolidates a credit for previous bills with figures that I can't yet reconcile and a combined bill.

When I drill down into this huge document I see they have split the usage periods into two, pre tariff increase and post tariff increase, which is fine, except that for the dates they have extended the second period by 7 days and called it an estimate.

What they were asked to do and should have done was to issue a credit note for the previously faulty invoices That could have been done as one or two PDF's.  Then created a bill for each of the periods from the 1st to the end of the month as they agreed to.

I am trying to make sense of the figures and creating a spreadsheet just for them, it will hopefully mirror each bill and then mirror the offal that is their latest bill.  

I have produced spreadsheets that allow me to enter annual use and compare but also one that showed the reads built the bill in the same way the supplier did at the time.

If I can't make sense of it I will take it to CAB, one has to be in the right mindset when tackling these things, it does not help that the Shell Energy Bill does not copy and paste properly.

I am not sure if you have a budget direct debit or a direct debit for the bill, (I am on the latter) but as far as I can see they are not sitting on your money but giving you several weeks before they take the money due.  On that front they are at least reasonable, but considering they do not answer emails for 3 to 4 weeks then it probably saves them from having t credit faulty bills (assuming they are minded to be helpful).

Mobtr

kroggy said:

prowla said:

I have to say I'm having difficulty understanding...

They're not going to bill bou for 37 days at a time (ie. ongoing).

However, if you go to "Account summary" and then "Edit payment amount" you can change your scheduled payment date; I don't know if that changes the bill date, though.

Ah, it doesn't; however, I noticed that my bill date is the 4th and my payment date was the 14th, so they're sitting on my money for up to 3 weeks a month; I've changed it to the 3rd.

It is not the payment date that concerns me but the dates used in the period within the bill, how this does not correspond with the periods of the reads and how they are adding 7 days and set the read to estimated.

I cannot say if they are going to do thing moving forward because they have produced an awful bill which consolidates a credit for previous bills with figures that I can't yet reconcile and a combined bill.

When I drill down into this huge document I see they have split the usage periods into two, pre tariff increase and post tariff increase, which is fine, except that for the dates they have extended the second period by 7 days and called it an estimate.

What they were asked to do and should have done was to issue a credit note for the previously faulty invoices That could have been done as one or two PDF's.  Then created a bill for each of the periods from the 1st to the end of the month as they agreed to.

I am trying to make sense of the figures and creating a spreadsheet just for them, it will hopefully mirror each bill and then mirror the offal that is their latest bill.  

I have produced spreadsheets that allow me to enter annual use and compare but also one that showed the reads built the bill in the same way the supplier did at the time.

If I can't make sense of it I will take it to CAB, one has to be in the right mindset when tackling these things, it does not help that the Shell Energy Bill does not copy and paste properly.

I am not sure if you have a budget direct debit or a direct debit for the bill, (I am on the latter) but as far as I can see they are not sitting on your money but giving you several weeks before they take the money due.  On that front they are at least reasonable, but considering they do not answer emails for 3 to 4 weeks then it probably saves them from having t credit faulty bills (assuming they are minded to be helpful).

So was your first bill from eg 1/1/22 - 7/2/22, second bill 8/2/22-14/3/22, third bill 15/3/22- 21/4/22. Is this how it went so every bill was for 37 days, not just the first on then each month after for 30 days? 

t0rt0ise

Mobtr said:

kroggy said:

prowla said:

I have to say I'm having difficulty understanding...

They're not going to bill bou for 37 days at a time (ie. ongoing).

However, if you go to "Account summary" and then "Edit payment amount" you can change your scheduled payment date; I don't know if that changes the bill date, though.

Ah, it doesn't; however, I noticed that my bill date is the 4th and my payment date was the 14th, so they're sitting on my money for up to 3 weeks a month; I've changed it to the 3rd.

It is not the payment date that concerns me but the dates used in the period within the bill, how this does not correspond with the periods of the reads and how they are adding 7 days and set the read to estimated.

I cannot say if they are going to do thing moving forward because they have produced an awful bill which consolidates a credit for previous bills with figures that I can't yet reconcile and a combined bill.

When I drill down into this huge document I see they have split the usage periods into two, pre tariff increase and post tariff increase, which is fine, except that for the dates they have extended the second period by 7 days and called it an estimate.

What they were asked to do and should have done was to issue a credit note for the previously faulty invoices That could have been done as one or two PDF's.  Then created a bill for each of the periods from the 1st to the end of the month as they agreed to.

I am trying to make sense of the figures and creating a spreadsheet just for them, it will hopefully mirror each bill and then mirror the offal that is their latest bill.  

I have produced spreadsheets that allow me to enter annual use and compare but also one that showed the reads built the bill in the same way the supplier did at the time.

If I can't make sense of it I will take it to CAB, one has to be in the right mindset when tackling these things, it does not help that the Shell Energy Bill does not copy and paste properly.

I am not sure if you have a budget direct debit or a direct debit for the bill, (I am on the latter) but as far as I can see they are not sitting on your money but giving you several weeks before they take the money due.  On that front they are at least reasonable, but considering they do not answer emails for 3 to 4 weeks then it probably saves them from having t credit faulty bills (assuming they are minded to be helpful).

So was your first bill from eg 1/1/22 - 7/2/22, second bill 8/2/22-14/3/22, third bill 15/3/22- 21/4/22. Is this how it went so every bill was for 37 days, not just the first on then each month after for 30 days? 

He doesn't know if that would happen because he doesn't leave it long enough to find out. He gets them to cancel the bill and start again each time and the system can't really cope with that.

Mobtr

t0rt0ise said:

Mobtr said:

kroggy said:

prowla said:

I have to say I'm having difficulty understanding...

They're not going to bill bou for 37 days at a time (ie. ongoing).

However, if you go to "Account summary" and then "Edit payment amount" you can change your scheduled payment date; I don't know if that changes the bill date, though.

Ah, it doesn't; however, I noticed that my bill date is the 4th and my payment date was the 14th, so they're sitting on my money for up to 3 weeks a month; I've changed it to the 3rd.

It is not the payment date that concerns me but the dates used in the period within the bill, how this does not correspond with the periods of the reads and how they are adding 7 days and set the read to estimated.

I cannot say if they are going to do thing moving forward because they have produced an awful bill which consolidates a credit for previous bills with figures that I can't yet reconcile and a combined bill.

When I drill down into this huge document I see they have split the usage periods into two, pre tariff increase and post tariff increase, which is fine, except that for the dates they have extended the second period by 7 days and called it an estimate.

What they were asked to do and should have done was to issue a credit note for the previously faulty invoices That could have been done as one or two PDF's.  Then created a bill for each of the periods from the 1st to the end of the month as they agreed to.

I am trying to make sense of the figures and creating a spreadsheet just for them, it will hopefully mirror each bill and then mirror the offal that is their latest bill.  

I have produced spreadsheets that allow me to enter annual use and compare but also one that showed the reads built the bill in the same way the supplier did at the time.

If I can't make sense of it I will take it to CAB, one has to be in the right mindset when tackling these things, it does not help that the Shell Energy Bill does not copy and paste properly.

I am not sure if you have a budget direct debit or a direct debit for the bill, (I am on the latter) but as far as I can see they are not sitting on your money but giving you several weeks before they take the money due.  On that front they are at least reasonable, but considering they do not answer emails for 3 to 4 weeks then it probably saves them from having t credit faulty bills (assuming they are minded to be helpful).

So was your first bill from eg 1/1/22 - 7/2/22, second bill 8/2/22-14/3/22, third bill 15/3/22- 21/4/22. Is this how it went so every bill was for 37 days, not just the first on then each month after for 30 days? 

He doesn't know if that would happen because he doesn't leave it long enough to find out. He gets them to cancel the bill and start again each time and the system can't really cope with that.

So it is probably the first bill will be for 37 days then after that 30 days for each one but because it’s not a calendar month he’s not happy. Wish that was all I had to worry about in life  

jimpwarsop

Am I asking too much from Shell Energy?

Yes.

Alnat1

Yes you are.

RogerBareford

kroggy said:

RogerBareford said:

kroggy said:

RogerBareford said:

kroggy said:

As a result of these issues I have four months of energy being disputed, I asked they they issue two bills, one up to the tariff change and one thereafter, instead they have produced a single bill which is so complex that I would need a top 3 auditing firm to comprehend and again it has gone past the reads by 7 days.

I think your exagerting how complicated the bill is. If you post a copy on here with all your personal details removed then someone will be able to explain it to you so you can understand it and then learn how to understand bills in the future.

I think you mean exaggerating, the bill is only complicated because they insist on adding this estimated week.

You have clearly made up your mind to blame the victim and take the side of Shell Energy, so no thanks I will not spend hours redacting and uploading a bill only for you to attack me further.

I have asked others and they go glass eyed when looking at the bill, the layout is the layout, I am not going to get Shell to change that, all I want is for the bill to run from 1st of month to end of month, I moved in on the 1st of month, I asked to be billed from 1st of month to end of Month and Shell Energy said it would be no problem.

It is clear that email is just a waste of time because by the time they reply a new bill has been sent and there is a whole new inaccurate bill of diarrhea to deal with.

What makes it diarrhea?

When I get the next bill the start of the bill will be an estimated read, so it will either need to be corrected or Shell Energy will be stealing from me.

At the same time they will add another 7 day period with an estimated read and the whole cycle will start again.

So previously all I ever needed to do was take a photo of my read which the 3rd party app converts to a read, I could submit that read to my supplier and I would get a bill for what I submitted.  NOT ROCKET SCIENCE

I really do not understand why this is so hard for Shell, so I have to conclude they are doing this to deliberately provide estimated reads so they can make money in rounding or whatever.

The abrasive and borderline hostile attitude of Shell Energy Staff just makes things worse.

I have had energy companies with call a centre in South Africa, India and the Philippines, I would always prefer a UK call centre but at least some of these were friendly and courteous with a willingness to help or with the ability to escalate to someone more experienced.

I think this is another area where Shell Energy fails, there does not appear to be a senior person to escalate to or a CEO's office, the staff seem almost willing for you to take to the Ombudsman.

Strange way to run a company and over time it will ruin their reputation.

Obviously they do not give a damn at the moment because we can't jump (yet) but I will dine out on telling my circle of their shortcomings and word will get out. 

It would take 5 minutes to blank out personal information on a picture of the bill and upload it then people could go through it and help you understand it. Nobody is "blaming the victim" i just think your wasting a lot of time posting on here and getting worked up about something that doesn't matter. So what if they don't bill you based on calendar months it makes no difference whatsoever, they could bill you once a year and it wouldn't matter because at the end of the day you pay for what you use.

Attempting to get them to change their billing system so it bills you on different days won't change anything so it's a waste of your effort.

What you need is someone who understands your bill to explain it to you and to check for errors so any issues you have can be resolved.

I am not sure if you are an employee of Shell Energy or just like winding people up on forums but please do not reply to any more of my messages.

I am not going to be providing my bill which has all kinds of personal information including the amounts used.

If I am wasting my time then it is my time to waste, please use the IGNORE function so you do not get notified of my messages and please do not reply to them.

I am not asking them to change their billing system, it is clear from other users that they do not bill every customer on the same day.

I moved in on the first, my reads are for a month from the first I expect to be billed from the first for 30 days not 37 days.

As for your last sentence I am quite capable of understanding my bill, I have had bills from almost all of the suppliers on the market over the years, I have been able to verify these with my own spreadsheets.

In the past I have had suppliers who play this USE ESTIMATES game so they can round up and make extra money off each customer.  It was my spreadsheet that highlighted this and they did stop it once I brought it to their attention.

To be honest I just want what seems to be normal, a bill based on my reads, a bill that runs on the anniversary of when I moved in.

You said in your OP that "they have produced a single bill which is so complex that I would need a top 3 auditing firm to comprehend" which suggests you don't understand you bill so that's why i suggested you post it on here and remove personal information ("amounts used" is not personal information). If you are capable of understanding you bill then i don't see what the issue is?

You also seem confused about estimates because even if they estimate too high then when they make the next bill with actual readings it will all correct itself, they also will not bill for the same period twice. So there is no way they can use estimates to make extra money.

If you don't actually want help and don't want people to reply who are trying to help you then i don't understand why you posted on here.

kroggy

RogerBareford said:

kroggy said:

RogerBareford said:

kroggy said:

RogerBareford said:

kroggy said:

As a result of these issues I have four months of energy being disputed, I asked they they issue two bills, one up to the tariff change and one thereafter, instead they have produced a single bill which is so complex that I would need a top 3 auditing firm to comprehend and again it has gone past the reads by 7 days.

I think your exagerting how complicated the bill is. If you post a copy on here with all your personal details removed then someone will be able to explain it to you so you can understand it and then learn how to understand bills in the future.

I think you mean exaggerating, the bill is only complicated because they insist on adding this estimated week.

You have clearly made up your mind to blame the victim and take the side of Shell Energy, so no thanks I will not spend hours redacting and uploading a bill only for you to attack me further.

I have asked others and they go glass eyed when looking at the bill, the layout is the layout, I am not going to get Shell to change that, all I want is for the bill to run from 1st of month to end of month, I moved in on the 1st of month, I asked to be billed from 1st of month to end of Month and Shell Energy said it would be no problem.

It is clear that email is just a waste of time because by the time they reply a new bill has been sent and there is a whole new inaccurate bill of diarrhea to deal with.

What makes it diarrhea?

When I get the next bill the start of the bill will be an estimated read, so it will either need to be corrected or Shell Energy will be stealing from me.

At the same time they will add another 7 day period with an estimated read and the whole cycle will start again.

So previously all I ever needed to do was take a photo of my read which the 3rd party app converts to a read, I could submit that read to my supplier and I would get a bill for what I submitted.  NOT ROCKET SCIENCE

I really do not understand why this is so hard for Shell, so I have to conclude they are doing this to deliberately provide estimated reads so they can make money in rounding or whatever.

The abrasive and borderline hostile attitude of Shell Energy Staff just makes things worse.

I have had energy companies with call a centre in South Africa, India and the Philippines, I would always prefer a UK call centre but at least some of these were friendly and courteous with a willingness to help or with the ability to escalate to someone more experienced.

I think this is another area where Shell Energy fails, there does not appear to be a senior person to escalate to or a CEO's office, the staff seem almost willing for you to take to the Ombudsman.

Strange way to run a company and over time it will ruin their reputation.

Obviously they do not give a damn at the moment because we can't jump (yet) but I will dine out on telling my circle of their shortcomings and word will get out. 

It would take 5 minutes to blank out personal information on a picture of the bill and upload it then people could go through it and help you understand it. Nobody is "blaming the victim" i just think your wasting a lot of time posting on here and getting worked up about something that doesn't matter. So what if they don't bill you based on calendar months it makes no difference whatsoever, they could bill you once a year and it wouldn't matter because at the end of the day you pay for what you use.

Attempting to get them to change their billing system so it bills you on different days won't change anything so it's a waste of your effort.

What you need is someone who understands your bill to explain it to you and to check for errors so any issues you have can be resolved.

I am not sure if you are an employee of Shell Energy or just like winding people up on forums but please do not reply to any more of my messages.

I am not going to be providing my bill which has all kinds of personal information including the amounts used.

If I am wasting my time then it is my time to waste, please use the IGNORE function so you do not get notified of my messages and please do not reply to them.

I am not asking them to change their billing system, it is clear from other users that they do not bill every customer on the same day.

I moved in on the first, my reads are for a month from the first I expect to be billed from the first for 30 days not 37 days.

As for your last sentence I am quite capable of understanding my bill, I have had bills from almost all of the suppliers on the market over the years, I have been able to verify these with my own spreadsheets.

In the past I have had suppliers who play this USE ESTIMATES game so they can round up and make extra money off each customer.  It was my spreadsheet that highlighted this and they did stop it once I brought it to their attention.

To be honest I just want what seems to be normal, a bill based on my reads, a bill that runs on the anniversary of when I moved in.

You said in your OP that "they have produced a single bill which is so complex that I would need a top 3 auditing firm to comprehend" which suggests you don't understand you bill so that's why i suggested you post it on here and remove personal information ("amounts used" is not personal information). If you are capable of understanding you bill then i don't see what the issue is?

You also seem confused about estimates because even if they estimate too high then when they make the next bill with actual readings it will all correct itself, they also will not bill for the same period twice. So there is no way they can use estimates to make extra money.

If you don't actually want help and don't want people to reply who are trying to help you then i don't understand why you posted on here.

What I don't understand is how they have structured this bill. because is it not a credit of the old bills but a big mixture of credit amounts that I can't reconcile to the old bills.

So what I can show after trying to focus on the amounts charged in the new offal bill is that they made these estimated reads despite having an email that detailed the two sets of dates and two sets of reads to use for a new bill.

As I said they did not use the reads I provided but instead used estimated reads, so today in building this spreadsheet to try to audit this mess I discovered two things about these estimated reads

1. The closing electricity read they used was around 30 units UNDER what I had provided
2. The closing Gas read they used was around 100 m3 OVER what I had provided

So I have been overcharged massively

I have explained to you before the reason I posted is that I wanted to establish if Shell Energy used reads for everyone on the same day of the month, we have established that they don't so there is no legitimate reason for them not to change my read period to 1st to end of month which is what they agreed in two separate calls to two separate people.

As I said, providing my actual data will identify me, the data is freely accessible to energy companies, to some of their employees or agents abroad, to OFGEM and to 3rd parties like Morrison Data Services.

One number is one thing, but the moment you provide a few and the dates and you are found.

So now I have the basis for the Direct Debit Recall as I have definitely been overcharged.  I am still working out the credits, I think they do not reconcile because they too use different dates,amounts and even the amount of amounts.