Tracing Sim Cards by Location?

HollyandCo

Hi

Just looking to understand if the Police will be able to trace a location of a pay as you go sim card?

In short, I have been stalked and the police have become aware of a mobile phone number used by the stalker.  My guess is this will be an unregistered pay as you go sim.  Assuming stalker has gotten rid of the sim, will the police be able to look back at sent messages (timings) and then do a search to confirm the location the sim was used at that specific time?  The Police did mention they would be looking at the IP addresses, but I'm not sure what information they could obtain by doing that.

Many thanks
Holly

MattMattMattUK

HollyandCo said:

Hi

Just looking to understand if the Police will be able to trace a location of a pay as you go sim card?

In short, I have been stalked and the police have become aware of a mobile phone number used by the stalker.  My guess is this will be an unregistered pay as you go sim.  Assuming stalker has gotten rid of the sim, will the police be able to look back at sent messages (timings) and then do a search to confirm the location the sim was used at that specific time?  The Police did mention they would be looking at the IP addresses, but I'm not sure what information they could obtain by doing that.

Many thanks
Holly

In theory yes, the network operator will have geographic information on where the phone was used, however that is usually not very accurate. Depending on where they are in the country it's accuracy can range from several hundred meters to tens of kilometres so it is not going to be able find someone's home or place of work, although it would give an approximate location. IP addresses are for internet based communication, they can be specific to an individual household, but they are also fairly easy to mask/fake. 

Jon_01

For a live sim the accuracy will depend on the density of masts in the area.  The more masts the more accurate the location will be (but not so much that the police can pin point it to a single house).
If the sims not active that the info on the network server will just be the mast that was used to connect to the phone when the message was sent.  If a number of message were sent in a short space of time then they might have connected to more than one mast and that might give more info.

HollyandCo

Jon_01 said:

For a live sim the accuracy will depend on the density of masts in the area.  The more masts the more accurate the location will be (but not so much that the police can pin point it to a single house).
If the sims not active that the info on the network server will just be the mast that was used to connect to the phone when the message was sent.  If a number of message were sent in a short space of time then they might have connected to more than one mast and that might give more info.

Thank you.  I think pinpointing the location and not the specific house is more than enough with the other evidence the police already have.  They have a good idea who it is and the person lives in a fairly remote village with just a handful of houses.  I am 99.99999% sure I know who the person is too - its just a matter of the police gathering the evidence.

HollyandCo

MattMattMattUK said:

HollyandCo said:

Hi

Just looking to understand if the Police will be able to trace a location of a pay as you go sim card?

In short, I have been stalked and the police have become aware of a mobile phone number used by the stalker.  My guess is this will be an unregistered pay as you go sim.  Assuming stalker has gotten rid of the sim, will the police be able to look back at sent messages (timings) and then do a search to confirm the location the sim was used at that specific time?  The Police did mention they would be looking at the IP addresses, but I'm not sure what information they could obtain by doing that.

Many thanks
Holly

" IP addresses are for internet based communication, they can be specific to an individual household, but they are also fairly easy to mask/fake."

I think I understand what you mean - is this where people can use some kind of software that gives a false IP address, say in another Country for example?

If the person has used this kind of software, and perhaps was maybe communicating over the internet, would the sim still be picked up from masts in the area?

The stalker actually impersonated me and tricked people into believing I had invited them to my home in the middle of the night.  The info I have from the police is a bit limited, they have screen shots of messages and images sent from the stalker but I don't know if the stalker was communicating via normal text or perhaps something like whatsapp for instance.  I really hope that if the communications was over the internet, then at least the sim can be traced back to have been used in the same area within a mile or so.

RobM99

Is the location of the SIM card purchase traceable? If so there could be CCTV footage.

HollyandCo

i have no idea.

It would be nice to know that even if the stalker was using the sim for messaging over the internet, there is still a good chance the sim can be tracked towards the person's village.

MattMattMattUK

HollyandCo said:

MattMattMattUK said:

HollyandCo said:

Hi

Just looking to understand if the Police will be able to trace a location of a pay as you go sim card?

In short, I have been stalked and the police have become aware of a mobile phone number used by the stalker.  My guess is this will be an unregistered pay as you go sim.  Assuming stalker has gotten rid of the sim, will the police be able to look back at sent messages (timings) and then do a search to confirm the location the sim was used at that specific time?  The Police did mention they would be looking at the IP addresses, but I'm not sure what information they could obtain by doing that.

Many thanks
Holly

" IP addresses are for internet based communication, they can be specific to an individual household, but they are also fairly easy to mask/fake."

I think I understand what you mean - is this where people can use some kind of software that gives a false IP address, say in another Country for example?

Yes, or used for corporate networks to provide greater security, to access certain services from abroad etc.

HollyandCo said:

If the person has used this kind of software, and perhaps was maybe communicating over the internet, would the sim still be picked up from masts in the area?

Those are two different things. The IP address is one route of tracking someone, but it would only go back to a device, eg. the phone/SIM card if it was actually traceable, but anyone with half a brain would be able to very easily cover their tracks from the police, anyone with a full brain would potentially be able to cover their tracks from even the likes of SIS and GCHQ. If the police are able to tell which SIM it is then they can go down the location data from the network, but again best case scenario in a large city you might get down to an area with a radius of several hundred meters, but realistically in most places it will be a kilometre or more. 

HollyandCo said:

The stalker actually impersonated me and tricked people into believing I had invited them to my home in the middle of the night.  The info I have from the police is a bit limited, they have screen shots of messages and images sent from the stalker but I don't know if the stalker was communicating via normal text or perhaps something like whatsapp for instance.  I really hope that if the communications was over the internet, then at least the sim can be traced back to have been used in the same area within a mile or so.

The police likely will not investigate this in any detail as it will be fairly obvious to them early on that they will not be able to track down the perpetrator. The reality is that they will make some cursory enquiries and unless the perpetrator was incredibly stupid they will not be able to work out who they are.

HollyandCo said:

i have no idea.

It would be nice to know that even if the stalker was using the sim for messaging over the internet, there is still a good chance the sim can be tracked towards the person's village.

Realistically there is a very low chance of the SIM being able to be tracked to a village, in a rural area with a village you might get a estimated area 10km+ wide and it could easily be 20km. In a city it would be tighter geographically, but there would be a lot more people.

I would recommend you speak to some relevant organisations about what can be done going forward to protect yourself, but do not expect the police to be able to resolve this at this stage. 

https://www.suzylamplugh.org/pages/category/national-stalking-helpline
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/stalking/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/taking-action-about-discrimination/taking-action-about-harassment/

Uxb1

I'd agree with the replies on sim/mast location.
I was involved in a court case as a witness which involved phone location data. I was not myself involved in the phone aspect issues.
It appeared that the suspect could be detected by their mobile's pings back to the mast they were connected to that they entered the sector quadrant of the mast at time x.  This directional sector of the mast's service area covered the village in question so the balance of probability was that the suspect went into the village.  What could not be determined was did the suspect move to another location within the village and back again or not before they later exited the coverage of the mast and went elsewhere..to be picked up by a different mast.

HollyandCo

MattMattMattUK said:

HollyandCo said:

MattMattMattUK said:

HollyandCo said:

Hi

Just looking to understand if the Police will be able to trace a location of a pay as you go sim card?

In short, I have been stalked and the police have become aware of a mobile phone number used by the stalker.  My guess is this will be an unregistered pay as you go sim.  Assuming stalker has gotten rid of the sim, will the police be able to look back at sent messages (timings) and then do a search to confirm the location the sim was used at that specific time?  The Police did mention they would be looking at the IP addresses, but I'm not sure what information they could obtain by doing that.

Many thanks
Holly

" IP addresses are for internet based communication, they can be specific to an individual household, but they are also fairly easy to mask/fake."

I think I understand what you mean - is this where people can use some kind of software that gives a false IP address, say in another Country for example?

Yes, or used for corporate networks to provide greater security, to access certain services from abroad etc.

HollyandCo said:

If the person has used this kind of software, and perhaps was maybe communicating over the internet, would the sim still be picked up from masts in the area?

Those are two different things. The IP address is one route of tracking someone, but it would only go back to a device, eg. the phone/SIM card if it was actually traceable, but anyone with half a brain would be able to very easily cover their tracks from the police, anyone with a full brain would potentially be able to cover their tracks from even the likes of SIS and GCHQ. If the police are able to tell which SIM it is then they can go down the location data from the network, but again best case scenario in a large city you might get down to an area with a radius of several hundred meters, but realistically in most places it will be a kilometre or more. 

HollyandCo said:

The stalker actually impersonated me and tricked people into believing I had invited them to my home in the middle of the night.  The info I have from the police is a bit limited, they have screen shots of messages and images sent from the stalker but I don't know if the stalker was communicating via normal text or perhaps something like whatsapp for instance.  I really hope that if the communications was over the internet, then at least the sim can be traced back to have been used in the same area within a mile or so.

The police likely will not investigate this in any detail as it will be fairly obvious to them early on that they will not be able to track down the perpetrator. The reality is that they will make some cursory enquiries and unless the perpetrator was incredibly stupid they will not be able to work out who they are.

HollyandCo said:

i have no idea.

It would be nice to know that even if the stalker was using the sim for messaging over the internet, there is still a good chance the sim can be tracked towards the person's village.

Realistically there is a very low chance of the SIM being able to be tracked to a village, in a rural area with a village you might get a estimated area 10km+ wide and it could easily be 20km. In a city it would be tighter geographically, but there would be a lot more people.

I would recommend you speak to some relevant organisations about what can be done going forward to protect yourself, but do not expect the police to be able to resolve this at this stage. 

https://www.suzylamplugh.org/pages/category/national-stalking-helpline
https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/stalking/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/taking-action-about-discrimination/taking-action-about-harassment/

Thanks - I've got support and they have been great including getting me an injunction.  Stalker actually broke the injunction and was arrested and held in custody for almost 24 hours.  They have searched his home, seized phones and laptops. They said something to me about IP address but I wasn't sure what they meant.   I am hoping that as they have all his equipment, that they will be able to track the messages back to him.  I will be devastated if they can't.

Sandtree

HollyandCo said:

MattMattMattUK said:

HollyandCo said:

Hi

Just looking to understand if the Police will be able to trace a location of a pay as you go sim card?

In short, I have been stalked and the police have become aware of a mobile phone number used by the stalker.  My guess is this will be an unregistered pay as you go sim.  Assuming stalker has gotten rid of the sim, will the police be able to look back at sent messages (timings) and then do a search to confirm the location the sim was used at that specific time?  The Police did mention they would be looking at the IP addresses, but I'm not sure what information they could obtain by doing that.

Many thanks
Holly

" IP addresses are for internet based communication, they can be specific to an individual household, but they are also fairly easy to mask/fake."

I think I understand what you mean - is this where people can use some kind of software that gives a false IP address, say in another Country for example?

If the person has used this kind of software, and perhaps was maybe communicating over the internet, would the sim still be picked up from masts in the area?

The stalker actually impersonated me and tricked people into believing I had invited them to my home in the middle of the night.  The info I have from the police is a bit limited, they have screen shots of messages and images sent from the stalker but I don't know if the stalker was communicating via normal text or perhaps something like whatsapp for instance.  I really hope that if the communications was over the internet, then at least the sim can be traced back to have been used in the same area within a mile or so.

"False" is not really the right word... you are talking about a VPN which basically routes all your internet traffic via their servers which means the outside world only sees the VPN's IP address. Most VPN companies sell the fact that their servers run RAM only and so they have no records of who viewed what etc. 

Many of us that use a VPN is to change our apparent location to be able to watch BBC iPlayer outside the UK or use HBO Max in the UK etc but there can be many other legitimate and negative reasons for doing so.

IP and SIM connection to the mast are separate but if the IP you have is from a VPN then the police wouldn't be able to identify the network operator let alone be able to give them info to use the SIM to check its last known location. Obviously depends what type of "message" it was... SMS, email etc