Rising Fuel Prices & Government Assistance (none)

A._Badger

Is there no end to the remoaner tactic of blaming Brexit for everything that happens? Apparently not. Road fuel price rises are happening elsewhere, too. Forbes has a more perceptive explanation of what is really going, though understandably it concentrates on the US/international aspects.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2022/06/13/the-real-reason-behind-higher-oil-and-gasoline-prices/

To add the UK perspective, factor in enormous government taxes and the its Net Zero policy.  

Grumpy_chap

A._Badger said:

Is there no end to the remoaner tactic of blaming Brexit for everything that happens? Apparently not. Road fuel price rises are happening elsewhere, too. 

Clearly down to BREXIT and nothing else.
Most of the world is being impacted by high fuel prices and most of the world is not in EU.  That is a clear and obvious link proving the correlation if you are not in the EU, petrol prices are high.
Any suggestion or fact to the contrary is clearly simply hogwash and nonsense spouted by Nigel Farage.
Like this data here showing high petrol price within an EU country.  Clearly lies.
https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/germany/prices/

sevenhills

[Deleted User] said:

The real reason that fuel is now so expensive is that the Pound has fallen due to the combined economic disasters of brexit and the COVID response.

2008 - $144/barrel, 120p at the pump.
2022 -  $113/barrel, 186p at the pump.

The price went up very quickly at the time of the 2008 recession, then came back down rather quickly, a matter of a few months.
It's likely to come down this time too, when the oil producers start pumping more.

[Deleted User]

If it's not due to brexit then why is it cheaper in NI, the only part of the UK with access to the Single Market?

Money_Grabber13579

[Deleted User] said:

If it's not due to brexit then why is it cheaper in NI, the only part of the UK with access to the Single Market?

Why do you think it’s cheaper in NI? Or is that just another baseless statement so that you can blame everything bad that happens on Brexit?

I don’t know what petrol prices are doing in GB but the RAC says that the average price of petrol is 187.51p a litre. All the petrol stations I have seen (yes, in NI) are selling petrol at 190.9p at a minimum and some are at 193.9p. So not exactly cheaper in NI and if anything, more expensive in NI…

Car_54

[Deleted User] said:

If it's not due to brexit then why is it cheaper in NI, the only part of the UK with access to the Single Market?

According to yesterday's paper, it's £2.15 a litre on the motorways in France, which is in the Single Market.

Ergates

OrwellianBabe said:

Good point Grumpy Chap but I'm guessing that'll be the same tax they'll put up to pay for all the other handouts the Gov are giving to help with cost of living increases.  We all know the taxpayer eventually ends up footing every bill.  I don't object to paying additional fuel duty if the cash is going to be ringfenced for the upkeep or improvements to roads/footpaths or public highways and byways.  Anyone know what fuel duty collected is actually used for or does it go into the general coffers to spend as Governments see fit?  Loved that other thread.  Thanks

Who else would end up footing the bill?  By definition, all the money the government raises through taxes is paid by "taxpayers"

None of the money raised through general taxation is ring-fenced for any particular purpose.  Doing so would have no discernable benefit and would just cost more money to implement.

Any reduction in taxes collected on fuel would have to be met with either a matching increase in tax on something else, OR a reduction in public spending.  Given how chronically underfunded so many of our public services are already, do you really want that to happen?

Also, would you really rather the money from fuel duty went to maintaining roads and footpaths rather than, say, keeping hospitals running?  Buying Covid vaccinations?  Running nursing homes?  Running schools?  Paying for the fire brigade?  Stopping people starving to death?  etc?

Ergates

A._Badger said:

Is there no end to the remoaner tactic of blaming Brexit for everything that happens? Apparently not. Road fuel price rises are happening elsewhere, too. Forbes has a more perceptive explanation of what is really going, though understandably it concentrates on the US/international aspects.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2022/06/13/the-real-reason-behind-higher-oil-and-gasoline-prices/

To add the UK perspective, factor in enormous government taxes and the its Net Zero policy.  

So you're saying that the value of the GBP to USD didn't drop significantly following the Brexit referendum?    Because that would be counter to every single piece of evidence available.

Or are you saying that oil isn't bought and sold in USD - because that would also be counter to all available evidence.

Or are you suggesting that a fall in the value wouldn't impact the cost in GBP of oil - because that would contradict basic maths.

Which is it?

Bigphil1474

Clearly Brexit has had an indirect effect on the cost of fuel, by reducing the value of the £ dramatically sinc4e 2016. But the current fuel price hikes are not as a result of Brexit, they are due to a number of factors. The dollar is strong because interest rates in the USA are high, making the $ seem a better bet for investors. If the $ gets stronger, the £ gets weaker. Fuel duty isn't to blame. It's been pretty static for over a decade. VAT revenue does go up as prices go up as it is % based. A fuel rate of VAT would make a difference (like we have on home energy), and not being in the EU we would be able to have a different rate of VAT on fuel but choose not to. Whilst many businesses are VAT registered, so would see little benefit of a VAT cut, many are not VAT registered (don't know %), but overall a temporary reduction of VAT on fuel would see everyone benefit (or at least not lose out), whilst govt. VAT revenue from fuel sales could be returned to a 'normal' level, and the reduction in fuel costs would also lead to a reduction in costs of goods such as food, as deliver costs would go down. 
On the flip side, if you consider Fuel Duty and VAT as an environmental tax, aiming to reduce general fuel consumption (and benefit the environment through lower emissions), whilst raising govt. revenue to spend as general tax, then it would seem to be doing it's job to some degree. Just a pity that there's no real alternatives to filling up with petrol or diesel for the majority of drivers at the minute. Perhaps some sort of rationing system where we all get 10 litres a week tax free and have to pay higher tax on anything above that, except where people drive for work. There doesn't seem to be any solution in the short term.

Steve182

OrwellianBabe said:

The BBC website today had an interesting article entitled ‘How are people coping with the soaring cost of living?’ in which it described a myriad of situations that have contributed to today’s increasing prices. 

As I scrolled down this lengthy article I stumbled across a feature headed ‘What makes up the cost of a litre of unleaded’ and wondered how long before I and others would have to ditch our cars in favour of ‘Shank’s Pony’ because we’d no longer be able to afford fuel. 

Quote taken from this BBC feature   "The fuel trade’s failure to cut prices this weekend will be nothing less than shameful," an AA spokesman says. It comes after the government raised concerns that petrol retailers were not passing on the recent cut in fuel duty. 

It made me laugh looking at the breakdown of the cost of a litre of unleaded provided which goes something like this:   Cost of petrol to supplier 45%  Cost of Fuel Duty 29%  Cost of VAT 17%  Cost of Biofuel content 7%  Retailers Profit 2%   Supply & Delivery 1%.  (which weirdly adds up to more than 100%) 

So whilst the Government are concerned that retailers are not passing on lower prices or fuel duty cuts, it’s a delicious irony that Fuel Duty & VAT together make up 46% of the cost of a litre, ie higher than the cost of petrol to suppliers. 

If the Government really wanted to help ease the burden then perhaps a reduction in VAT or a legislative change to mandate fuel duty reductions being passed on would be the way forward.  What does everyone else feel?

They could reduce VAT on fuel yes. Unfortunately we have a huge financial burden from Covid to pay for, and the VAT reduction you propose would need to be made up by reductions elsewhere.

Suggestions for suitable cuts - ?

NHS
Education
Public transport
Police
Fire
Transformation to renewables
Aid to Ukraine

Actually I would freeze train drivers salaries if it's true that £59K is the average salary for driving a train. That is an outrageous salary and there is no way a train driver is more skilled or valuable than a nurse who might typically earn £31K. Such outrageous salaries only exist because unions have too much power and can hold a country to ransom.