Previous Employer withholding my P45

kbraws14

I used to work for an NHS Trust (end of employment 4th of March 2022) and before I left, I asked then to keep me as a BANK post ie on a zero hour contract. I started then my new employment at a different Trust on the 14th of March 2022. Because I didn't get a P45, my new employer made me fill out a new starter checklist instead.

Fast forward and I get paid by both at the end of March. My tax code from my previous employer was 1257L and my new employer was the same but as 1257LX.

I now was informed by HMRC that I owe them tax from a previous tax year. And so I rang them and asked where it came from and they said it was because both employers used the same tax code and so I got double my personal allowance. I said that I finished my previous employment but have kept my zero-hours contract. They then said that they'll need a P45 from my previous employer to sort it out.

After that, I asked my previous employer for the P45 and they said they cannot as my roles were 'aggregated' and so they cannot issue me a P45 but I said that my full time post was separate from this zero hours post so I do not understand. I pestered them for a while and they said they will terminate that post and create a new BANK post and then issue me a P45.

Technically by law, I'm allowed to have a P45 right? I don't understand why my employer is withholding it from me? I feel like they made some miscalculation somewhere to have this underpaid tax discrepancy and don't want to admit to it that's why they're withholding me my P45.

Can anyone help me sort this out? Do I really owe tax? HMRC seems to be no help at all unless I provide them with a P45 which my previous employer won't give me.

MattMattMattUK

kbraws14 said:

I used to work for an NHS Trust (end of employment 4th of March 2022) and before I left, I asked then to keep me as a BANK post ie on a zero hour contract. I started then my new employment at a different Trust on the 14th of March 2022. Because I didn't get a P45, my new employer made me fill out a new starter checklist instead.

Fast forward and I get paid by both at the end of March. My tax code from my previous employer was 1257L and my new employer was the same but as 1257LX.

I now was informed by HMRC that I owe them tax from a previous tax year. And so I rang them and asked where it came from and they said it was because both employers used the same tax code and so I got double my personal allowance. I said that I finished my previous employment but have kept my zero-hours contract. They then said that they'll need a P45 from my previous employer to sort it out.

After that, I asked my previous employer for the P45 and they said they cannot as my roles were 'aggregated' and so they cannot issue me a P45 but I said that my full time post was separate from this zero hours post so I do not understand. I pestered them for a while and they said they will terminate that post and create a new BANK post and then issue me a P45.

Technically by law, I'm allowed to have a P45 right? I don't understand why my employer is withholding it from me? I feel like they made some miscalculation somewhere to have this underpaid tax discrepancy and don't want to admit to it that's why they're withholding me my P45.

Can anyone help me sort this out? Do I really owe tax? HMRC seems to be no help at all unless I provide them with a P45 which my previous employer won't give me.

What was your income in the relevant tax year and how much tax and NI did you pay? Then we can say if you owe any tax or not. 

You do have a right to a P45, but it would depend on exactly what happed with your employment, eg. P45, P60.
https://www.gov.uk/paye-forms-p45-p60-p11d

kbraws14

*Just to add, they have not given me my P45 yet and I rang HMRC this morning and they said they cannot do much about it now because it was from a previous tax year and that if I get the P45 then maybe they can do something about this underpayment of tax. But to this date, my previous employer is dodging me and it doesn't help that I've moved hundreds of miles away so I cannot just go there and get my P45 during a weekday when they are open as I am working too.

General_Grant

Your previous employer didn't want to issue a P45 because that is a leaver form and you wanted to continue to work for them.  So they were saving themselves some work by not issuing a P45 and then needing to produce a new starter form.  

The problem seems to have been in your completion of the new starter form with the new employer.  What did you say on that form about your employment?

And yes, you do owe the tax.  You've had the benefit of the extra funds but it needs either to be paid to HMRC directly by you or they may adjust your tax code so it is repaid via your future pay.

JGB1955

You've either left your previous employment (P45) or you haven't (P60 at year end).

74jax

What was the income and what was the tax paid? 

kbraws14

MattMattMattUK said:

kbraws14 said:

I used to work for an NHS Trust (end of employment 4th of March 2022) and before I left, I asked then to keep me as a BANK post ie on a zero hour contract. I started then my new employment at a different Trust on the 14th of March 2022. Because I didn't get a P45, my new employer made me fill out a new starter checklist instead.

Fast forward and I get paid by both at the end of March. My tax code from my previous employer was 1257L and my new employer was the same but as 1257LX.

I now was informed by HMRC that I owe them tax from a previous tax year. And so I rang them and asked where it came from and they said it was because both employers used the same tax code and so I got double my personal allowance. I said that I finished my previous employment but have kept my zero-hours contract. They then said that they'll need a P45 from my previous employer to sort it out.

After that, I asked my previous employer for the P45 and they said they cannot as my roles were 'aggregated' and so they cannot issue me a P45 but I said that my full time post was separate from this zero hours post so I do not understand. I pestered them for a while and they said they will terminate that post and create a new BANK post and then issue me a P45.

Technically by law, I'm allowed to have a P45 right? I don't understand why my employer is withholding it from me? I feel like they made some miscalculation somewhere to have this underpaid tax discrepancy and don't want to admit to it that's why they're withholding me my P45.

Can anyone help me sort this out? Do I really owe tax? HMRC seems to be no help at all unless I provide them with a P45 which my previous employer won't give me.

What was your income in the relevant tax year and how much tax and NI did you pay? Then we can say if you owe any tax or not. 

You do have a right to a P45, but it would depend on exactly what happed with your employment

Income from my previous employment at the end of the tax year:
£27,623.78
Income tax: £3008.60
NI: 2444.43
This is with loads of overtime by the way.

Income from my current employer at the end of 2021/2022 tax year:
£1463.02
£82.80
£97.92

So from my understanding, and as far as I am aware, I agreed to terminate my full-time post but agreed to kept a zero hours contract ie on a pay as you earn basis so the tax code should have changed? HMRC at one point estimated that my zero hours contract is another full time post and so my tax code changed allowing me with less personal tax allowance and so I had to sort that debacle out. And this is why I wanted a P45 for my full time post as it is different contract from my zero hours contract one.

tehone

Luckily for you there was only about 6 weeks of work in that tax year, so the overall tax will be fairly small. You should have told your new employer that this was a second job (as you hadn't left the old one - you were still employed there) - they would have then taxed you on that basis.

For the tax year commencing April 2022, as long as you haven't worked at all for the old employer, they will re-issue the tax codes and the net effect will be that you'll have paid the correct amount of tax and won't owe anymore

I'm not a tax expert in any way shape or form (so this is my understanding based on what you've said above)- but based on your figures above, I think it'll be less than £300, and it used to be you could ask them to recover that amount over the next tax year by amending your code slightly - so if my example were accurate, then they'd take £25 per month from you tax over the next year.

MattMattMattUK

kbraws14 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

kbraws14 said:

I used to work for an NHS Trust (end of employment 4th of March 2022) and before I left, I asked then to keep me as a BANK post ie on a zero hour contract. I started then my new employment at a different Trust on the 14th of March 2022. Because I didn't get a P45, my new employer made me fill out a new starter checklist instead.

Fast forward and I get paid by both at the end of March. My tax code from my previous employer was 1257L and my new employer was the same but as 1257LX.

I now was informed by HMRC that I owe them tax from a previous tax year. And so I rang them and asked where it came from and they said it was because both employers used the same tax code and so I got double my personal allowance. I said that I finished my previous employment but have kept my zero-hours contract. They then said that they'll need a P45 from my previous employer to sort it out.

After that, I asked my previous employer for the P45 and they said they cannot as my roles were 'aggregated' and so they cannot issue me a P45 but I said that my full time post was separate from this zero hours post so I do not understand. I pestered them for a while and they said they will terminate that post and create a new BANK post and then issue me a P45.

Technically by law, I'm allowed to have a P45 right? I don't understand why my employer is withholding it from me? I feel like they made some miscalculation somewhere to have this underpaid tax discrepancy and don't want to admit to it that's why they're withholding me my P45.

Can anyone help me sort this out? Do I really owe tax? HMRC seems to be no help at all unless I provide them with a P45 which my previous employer won't give me.

What was your income in the relevant tax year and how much tax and NI did you pay? Then we can say if you owe any tax or not. 

You do have a right to a P45, but it would depend on exactly what happed with your employment

Income from my previous employment at the end of the tax year:
£27,623.78
Income tax: £3008.60
NI: 2444.43
This is with loads of overtime by the way.

Income from my current employer at the end of 2021/2022 tax year:
£1463.02
£82.80
£97.92

Based on a rough calculation and that is harder because of the way NI works with two different jobs and if any of the payments were in the same weeks/months etc. but it looks like you underpaid Income tax by £211.60.

kbraws14 said:
So from my understanding, and as far as I am aware, I agreed to terminate my full-time post but agreed to kept a zero hours contract ie on a pay as you earn basis so the tax code should have changed? HMRC at one point estimated that my zero hours contract is another full time post and so my tax code changed allowing me with less personal tax allowance and so I had to sort that debacle out. And this is why I wanted a P45 for my full time post as it is different contract from my zero hours contract one.

It depends exactly how it was managed in terms of a termination and new appointment, or a contract revision. As other have said if it was continuous employment then they needed to issue you a P60 at the end of the year, if it was two separate employments then they needed to issue you a P45 when they terminated the first one. 

Ultimately I think it probably does not matter, it appears likely you have underpaid tax and P45 or not you will still have to pay that. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Can anyone help me sort this out? Do I really owe tax? HMRC seems to be no help at all unless I provide them with a P45 which my previous employer won't give me.

You seem a little confused.

Getting a P45 now will have no impact whatsoever on the tax owed for 2021:22.

The tax owed is based on the facts i.e. what each employee paid and the tax deducted.

Bottom line is you have effectively had the benefit of an interest free loan from HMRC which you will need to repay.

Nothing you have posted suggests any reason why the tax owed (£212 or so?) will change.

gwynlas

P45s do not really matter as you completed a new starter form. You should by now have received  P60s for year 21/22.from both Trusts. You might owe a small amount of tax but your code can be altered to collect this over this year.
Why would you take on a Bank role when you live hundreds of miles away?