Is someone breaking the law?

mc303m

DE_612183 said:

mc303m said:

I would like to refer back to the original question which is, my aunts car as been taken from her home driven 650 miles away and the V5 has been changed, my aunt has no mental capacity to give permission, therefore is this legal or illegal

It's not just as simple as that - if she has given permission then there is no problem.

If someone acting for her officially has given permission then there is also no problem.

You seem to want the answer that it is a problem without having or giving all the facts.

If you really think a crime has been committed then I would suggest you contact the Police.

Once again, sorry if its been misunderstood, she has no sense of reality and is permanently unable to make decisions for herself, as of yet there is no deputyship, so who can officially give permission for her possessions to be removed away from her home?

elsien

DE_612183 said:

mc303m said:

I would like to refer back to the original question which is, my aunts car as been taken from her home driven 650 miles away and the V5 has been changed, my aunt has no mental capacity to give permission, therefore is this legal or illegal

It's not just as simple as that - if she has given permission then there is no problem.

If someone acting for her officially has given permission then there is also no problem.

You seem to want the answer that it is a problem without having or giving all the facts.

If you really think a crime has been committed then I would suggest you contact the Police.

If she does not have capacity to consent then she cannot give permission.
If there is not deputyship in place then there is no-one yet able to give permission on her behalf.
Which is the crux of the OPs question.  I would suggest you or your mother having a conversation with the relative's in question to find out more about what is happening.
Its not unlawful for the V5 to go in someone else's name. It may be that they are planning to pay her for the car given that she won't be using it again, or that she gave consent while still able to do so. You don't have enough to go on here. If there is a problem then it's going to be around financial fraud which is a safeguarding and should allow mechanisms to be put in place to protect her, but from what you've said other than the car sat outside the house everything else is speculation at the moment.

lincroft1710

Perhaps at some time in the past, your aunt may have told your sister or nephew directly that he could have (use of) the car when it was of no further use to her. In any case a car left sitting around for a long period will start to deteriorate, so someone should have done something about it.

mc303m

lincroft1710 said:

Perhaps at some time in the past, your aunt may have told your sister or nephew directly that he could have (use of) the car when it was of no further use to her. In any case a car left sitting around for a long period will start to deteriorate, so someone should have done something about it.

No permission has ever been given, I know my aunty lol, i believe this is all being done in the interest for my sisters son and not the next of kin, I'm trying to find out the legality of removing the vehicle without the owners permission, who has no capacity to give permission. one story was the care home and the social worker said it was ok!

sheramber

We only have your interpretation of what has happened so cannot say whether is legal or otherwise.

However, if your aunt in not mentally capable she would not be able to complete an insurance application for the car. So it would be uninsured.

For your nephew to insure it he would change the registered keeper to his name.  Remember the V5 is not proof of ownership, only who is the registered keeper of the vehicle.

elsien

I’m just going to repeat that next of kin has no meaning in this context. And all decisions should be in your aunt’s best interests, not of her “next of kin”  - it’s starting to feel a little more like people fighting over her assets rather than thinking what is best for her. 
You’ve had the information about what to do if you are worried.  I’m out now as this is starting to go in circles. 

mc303m

elsien said:

I’m just going to repeat that next of kin has no meaning in this context. And all decisions should be in your aunt’s best interests, not of her “next of kin”  - it’s starting to feel a little more like people fighting over her assets rather than thinking what is best for her. 
You’ve had the information about what to do if you are worried.  I’m out now as this is starting to go in circles. 

Yes  your right, and thank you for your advice

T.T.D

Re-V5C is a document that places the responsibilities of keeping a vehicle upon a person as so for fines etc. This transfer iof a keeper is done by the CURRENT keeper of said vehicle, now how they did this could be a fraudulent act, if the So. filled this out themselves and is without any sort of deputyship/LPA they have “acted” as the current keeper/or recognised person responsible for your Aunts affairs, there in lies a potential fraud upon the DVLA not yourself.

What evidence could you provide the DVLA that this vehicles potential Keeper your sisters son has acted fraudulently? 

I think it’s important to know what car we’re talking about, what model and year, we could be taking about a rot box worth scrap value or a classic worth 25k onwards or possibly a car that is potentially not owned by your Aunt but by a finance deal  we need to know I thinks that’s important information. 

In my mind, I don’t think anyone has sat down and had a family meeting about the progress of your Aunts condition and whom is taking the Power to act in decision making and drawing clear lines on what not to take from her estate due to a possible will that leaves specific items to people, taking the car now would in my mind be a no no but maintaining it and keeping it road worthy as per responsibility of the keeper to prevent fines to the estate by the DVLA/POLICE is but there’s a deviding line, you don’t get to register it in your own name it remains part of the estate. 

What’s also important is your Aunts will and wishes, if in her will she leaves that car to someone else other than your sisters son, this could cause potential issues upon her death.

Im with the OP the vehicle matters here and how decisions are being made about the estate with the aunt still alive but not Copus mentis any longer, it is part of the Aunts Estate and decisions to dish out items of this magnitude I think crosses a line of fairness for all the family involved, Especially if that vehicle is a classic/modern Classic or somewhat sort after or exotic vehicle potentially worth a lot of money. 

  

mc303m

Please read my ****** replies, thank you

T.T.D said:

Re-V5C is a document that places the responsibilities of keeping a vehicle upon a person as so for fines etc. This transfer iof a keeper is done by the CURRENT keeper of said vehicle, now how they did this could be a fraudulent act, if the So. filled this out themselves and is without any sort of deputyship/LPA they have “acted” as the current keeper/or recognised person responsible for your Aunts affairs, there in lies a potential fraud upon the DVLA not yourself.

*The V5 was changed April 22

What evidence could you provide the DVLA that this vehicles potential Keeper your sisters son has acted fraudulently? 

** no permission was given by the vehicle owner

I think it’s important to know what car we’re talking about, what model and year, we could be taking about a rot box worth scrap value or a classic worth 25k onwards or possibly a car that is potentially not owned by your Aunt but by a finance deal  we need to know I thinks that’s important information. 

*** the value of the 2 vehicles are a total over 100k, however only 1 x 40k has been taken from the estate without permission

In my mind, I don’t think anyone has sat down and had a family meeting about the progress of your Aunts condition and whom is taking the Power to act in decision making and drawing clear lines on what not to take from her estate due to a possible will that leaves specific items to people, taking the car now would in my mind be a no no but maintaining it and keeping it road worthy as per responsibility of the keeper to prevent fines to the estate by the DVLA/POLICE is but there’s a deviding line, you don’t get to register it in your own name it remains part of the estate. 

What’s also important is your Aunts will and wishes, if in her will she leaves that car to someone else other than your sisters son, this could cause potential issues upon her death.

**** My aunt has not made a will

Im with the OP the vehicle matters here and how decisions are being made about the estate with the aunt still alive but not Copus mentis any longer, it is part of the Aunts Estate and decisions to dish out items of this magnitude I think crosses a line of fairness for all the family involved, Especially if that vehicle is a classic/modern Classic or somewhat sort after or exotic vehicle potentially worth a lot of money. 

***** my thoughts

  

Please read my ****** replies above, thank you

lincroft1710

mc303m said:

I would like to refer back to the original question which is, my aunts car as been taken from her home driven 650 miles away and the V5 has been changed, my aunt has no mental capacity to give permission, therefore is this legal or illegal

So the vehicle must have been driven from England to Scotland or vice versa if it has been driven that far away.