Poor quality patio - what to do next?

Emmadiy22

We have just had a new patio completed. This included removing an old patio and built in pond, increasing the size of the patio into a raised lawn, new retaining walls, about 30sqm of new patio slabs and drainage etc....
Now we did make (probably a big) error in not getting more quotes. We used a local soletrader we have used for other garden work before, and who has been used by friends, with good results. The quote was higher than we'd have liked but we trusted him, he discussed lots of ideas with us and seemed like he knew what he was doing.
The work over ran which meant we were on holiday when they were laying the tiles. We have just returned and the finished quality is really poor- definitely not worth what we have paid.
The only way we can see to improve is to relay the whole thing - although we're not sure we trust this tradesman to do it.
Advice needed please - we have not yet paid the full agreed amount but this would not leave us with enough to pay another company to relay. Do we ask for money back? 
Thr other complicating factor is that have paid about 2/3rds of the money in cash.
We have renovated our whole house so don't consider ourselves naive when it comes to dealing with trades people - but this time are feeling like we made a very costly mistake!

rob7475

Can you post some pictures of the patio so we can get an idea of the job quality?

stuart45

If the slabs go over where the pond was you might get settlement issues, unless it was filled in properly.

Mistral001

The original builder has the legal right to put right any defects, so you need to exhaust all avenues regarding getting the original builder back to do any work that is required.

Emmadiy22

Here are some photos. Am I being too harsh? It's hard to get the detail in the photo but the slabs aren't level and the gaps between them are of differing sizes (but I would say generally they are all too large. They haven't cleaned the tiles, which night be making it look worse, but the size of the pointing between the tiles is I think making it look really messy

Emmadiy22

stuart45 said:

If the slabs go over where the pond was you might get settlement issues, unless it was filled in properly.

The pond was actually raised so hopefully this won't be a problem!

rob7475

Sometimes with paving slabs like that, you'll find they aren't a uniform thickness which can make it hard to level them. This could be why he's left a wider gap between slabs which will make it less noticable.

He could have tidied up the areas round the joints a bit but a bit of brick cleaner will probably sort that. 

I'd get him back around and just ask him about the issues you're seeing. Hopefully, he'll explain why they are like that. I don't think it's worth falling out over if you've generally been happy with his work in the past

Bendy_House

It's a toughie, Emma, and not obviously an 'unacceptable' job.

Could you take a photo looking downwards from above - hold your camera above your head or from an upstairs window - so we can see the grout lines better?

Others will be able to comment on whether the grout-lines are - in general - too large. I just don't know. They do seem to stick out visually due to them being grey mortar, but that's a separate issue (could/should they have been coloured?)

As said before, these slabs do tend to be a bit uneven, and that's part of its appeal and character. However, there is a limit, and there shouldn't be any trip hazards, for example. Could you find one of the worst examples, place a straight edge sitting across it, and take a slab-level photo so folk on here can give their opinions?

Whatever the outcome, there is a correct legal process to go through, and that begins with talking to the installer, and giving them a chance to address your concerns. First, tho', can you provide more info so you can hopefully be more informed?

(I suspect, ultimately, it'll be considered too big a resolution to fully relay these slabs, but that doesn't mean some form of compensation can't be expected. BUT, it does need to be considered not of satisfactory quality before even that.)

Can I ask - what made you decide on these slabs (not questioning your taste - I think they look great :-) )? Have you SEEN them elsewhere, either in 'real life' or in a photo/brochure? And how do they compare? Similar grout lines? Same colour? How is your patio different to what you expected?

I also expect that the whole effect will improve as it weathers - the grey cement will darken, and the grout edges sharpen up under footfall.

Tucosalamanca

I have an Indian sandstone patio and wish it was as good as yours.
I think it's a characteristic, varying thickness and sizes leads to a thicker mortar.
With hindsight, wish I'd chosen different tiles. 
Looking at Google images, yours doesn't look too different to 'brochure pics'.
Think it would be a real gamble to employ another contractor, you could end up with worse results. Just my opinion.

TELLIT01

The wet areas around the mortar make is difficult to tell if the paving is level or not as those wet sections can be mistaken for shadow.  For example, the large slab outside the patio doors looks to slope towards the house and the edge to be lower than the narrow slabs which adjoin the drainage channel.  If that edge really is noticeably lower than the other slabs there is something to be sorted out.  Sandstone slabs do not have a smooth surface so some small inconsistency has to be accepted.

_Sam_

I think it's difficult say if grout lines are too large or too small, to a certain degree it is a matter of preference. I think large grout lines with stone paving look nice, but my friend prefers sleek modern paving with hardly any grout lines.

On the below photo the grout lines look similar size to yours but more uniform colour with the paving. Perhaps if you paint yours in darker grey it would make a difference? (They do make grout colouring/paint for indoor tiling, not sure about the outdoor but may be worth investigating?)