Going for an Hospital operation (Wisdom teeth), employer wants me to take Annual leave?

Purplelady65

I’ve worked for the NHS for many, many years and I’ve never heard of anyone ever taking annual leave for planned surgery. It has always been classed as sick leave. Also for the first seven days of sickness absence it’s self certification so not sure why your manager is suggesting you get a sick note as if your operation is on a Friday the Monday and Tuesday are day 4 and 5 (even if you don’t usually work week-ends the Saturdays and Sunday will be classed as day 2 and 3). Your pay will not be affected. Check your Trust’s sickness absence policy or supporting attendance/managing attendance policy as they tend to be called now. I will be amazed if the policy says the day of surgery must be taken as annual leave. 

Grumpy_chap

Bouncerus said:

Hi all,

I have a operation in a hospital for my wisdom teeth. It's a proper one in the hospital as it's a 'high risk' procedure, and I'm undergoing general anaesthetic where they put you to sleep.

The operation is happening on a Friday, so will have the weekend to recover. I also work from home. I have told my employer about this operation, and at first they said its' fine but now they've asked me to book the days leave for it.

I'm fairly new in employment all together (2 years), and this situation has never happened to me. My employer has said at the time of the operation to get a sick note if they think I need to be off monday/tuesday e.c.t

I don't want to kick up a huge fuss, and I'm not sure if operations are supposed to be taken from annual leave?. I have a fair bit of leave left.

Your boss may be thinking that you will be better off taking annual leave for the one day as that means you earn full salary.  If you take one day as sickness, would you still get full salary?

As for recovery time, this will vary from individual to individual.  Others report their experience of a couple of weeks.  When I had my wisdom teeth removed under general anaesthetic, I was back at work the following day.  It can vary greatly between individuals.

Good luck.

happyc84

Line Managers who say that people should use their AL for sick days are a disgrace. 
Is it any wonder people leave organisation that are so negative towards their own staff.
Really surprised  the NHS local trust support this.
As others have said join the local Trade Union, speak to them; also try and find out the local HR policy,

Undervalued

happyc84 said:

Line Managers who say that people should use their AL for sick days are a disgrace. 
Is it any wonder people leave organisation that are so negative towards their own staff.
Really surprised  the NHS local trust support this.
As others have said join the local Trade Union, speak to them; also try and find out the local HR policy,

I can't speak for normal NHS policy, however in general terms it is perfectly lawful to treat a planned absence for routine elective surgery as holiday rather than sickness.

Company sick pay (i.e anything over and above SSP) is a contractual benefit and not a legal entitlement. 

It is also perfectly lawful to have a tightly managed sickness absence policy. Normally that triggers reviews based on a formula that counts both the total length of time off sick, in a certain period, and the number of separate absences. If such a policy is in place (and as I understand it the NHS is moving in that direction) it may well be in the employee's best interest to treat a likely single day, known in advance, as holiday in case they are sick for longer later in the year.

DontBringBertie

Undervalued said:

happyc84 said:

Line Managers who say that people should use their AL for sick days are a disgrace. 
Is it any wonder people leave organisation that are so negative towards their own staff.
Really surprised  the NHS local trust support this.
As others have said join the local Trade Union, speak to them; also try and find out the local HR policy,

I can't speak for normal NHS policy, however in general terms it is perfectly lawful to treat a planned absence for routine elective surgery as holiday rather than sickness.

Company sick pay (i.e anything over and above SSP) is a contractual benefit and not a legal entitlement. 

It is also perfectly lawful to have a tightly managed sickness absence policy. Normally that triggers reviews based on a formula that counts both the total length of time off sick, in a certain period, and the number of separate absences. If such a policy is in place (and as I understand it the NHS is moving in that direction) it may well be in the employee's best interest to treat a likely single day, known in advance, as holiday in case they are sick for longer later in the year.

I think it depends on how staff have behaved in the past.

In my current job, one of our team is always made to take medical days as holiday. But this is only because she has about 1 sick day every 2 weeks and regularly takes the !!!!!! so can’t be given any leeway (she’s “had COVID” about 5 times in the last year for example).

Bouncerus

Undervalued said:

happyc84 said:

Line Managers who say that people should use their AL for sick days are a disgrace. 
Is it any wonder people leave organisation that are so negative towards their own staff.
Really surprised  the NHS local trust support this.
As others have said join the local Trade Union, speak to them; also try and find out the local HR policy,

I can't speak for normal NHS policy, however in general terms it is perfectly lawful to treat a planned absence for routine elective surgery as holiday rather than sickness.

Company sick pay (i.e anything over and above SSP) is a contractual benefit and not a legal entitlement. 

It is also perfectly lawful to have a tightly managed sickness absence policy. Normally that triggers reviews based on a formula that counts both the total length of time off sick, in a certain period, and the number of separate absences. If such a policy is in place (and as I understand it the NHS is moving in that direction) it may well be in the employee's best interest to treat a likely single day, known in advance, as holiday in case they are sick for longer later in the year.

I've never been sick in my life. This is where I suppose my manager may have come from, they may expect me to be back in Monday so may be avoiding triggering a sickness. Issue is that I may not be well enough to work on the Monday, due to the OP being done in a hospital. I'm not sure what happens in a situation like this. 

happyc84

My question is would you take back planned holidays if your were ill. I did. My health is more important than short term dept goals.
I quote
"If an employee is ill just before or during their holiday, they can take it as sick leave instead. An employee can ask to take their paid holiday for the time they're off work sick."