High standing charges for gas and electric.

wild666

GingerTim said:

pochase said:

If you look at this Ofgem block from 25th of May, they are not reviewing the whole standing charge, but just the SOLR portion of it,

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/news-and-views/blog/how-ofgem-responding-energy-crisis

Ofgem Chief Executive Jonathan Brearley set out how we are working to make the retail energy market more resilient at the BEIS select committee yesterday (24th May 2022)

If we find evidence of suppliers not treating consumers fairly or complying with our rules, we will take swift action and make full use of our enforcement powers. Equally, we have heard concerns from consumer groups around charges. Therefore, we will review the allocation of the SOLR levy between standing and volumetric charges to ensure they are fair for all consumers, and will be coming forward with our thinking very soon.

So how could that work. Will they add x P to every KWh electricity until the SOLR cost is paid off? 

At the moment it is still at the status they are reviewing it, not that they will really change something. I am interested to learn what they believe is fair for all consumers. 

I'm not convinced that shifting the SOLR cost onto 45p+/kwh unit rates would be any more popular!

IMO if they shifted the SoLR charge onto the kWh of electric then they might have to work out the average daily usage, I think it's about 8 kWh per day, and increase the SC either by that on the first 8 kWh or every kWh. That would mean low users would benefit as they don't use 8 kWh per day. If they did it on every kWh used then high users would feel the hit as they would be subsidizing the SoLR process more than low users. 

pochase

wild666 said:

GingerTim said:

pochase said:

If you look at this Ofgem block from 25th of May, they are not reviewing the whole standing charge, but just the SOLR portion of it,

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/news-and-views/blog/how-ofgem-responding-energy-crisis

Ofgem Chief Executive Jonathan Brearley set out how we are working to make the retail energy market more resilient at the BEIS select committee yesterday (24th May 2022)

If we find evidence of suppliers not treating consumers fairly or complying with our rules, we will take swift action and make full use of our enforcement powers. Equally, we have heard concerns from consumer groups around charges. Therefore, we will review the allocation of the SOLR levy between standing and volumetric charges to ensure they are fair for all consumers, and will be coming forward with our thinking very soon.

So how could that work. Will they add x P to every KWh electricity until the SOLR cost is paid off? 

At the moment it is still at the status they are reviewing it, not that they will really change something. I am interested to learn what they believe is fair for all consumers. 

I'm not convinced that shifting the SOLR cost onto 45p+/kwh unit rates would be any more popular!

IMO if they shifted the SoLR charge onto the kWh of electric then they might have to work out the average daily usage, I think it's about 8 kWh per day, and increase the SC either by that on the first 8 kWh or every kWh. That would mean low users would benefit as they don't use 8 kWh per day. If they did it on every kWh used then high users would feel the hit as they would be subsidizing the SoLR process more than low users. 

Apart from high users subsidising low users, if the average usage is 8KWh, they need to add the SOLR charge to the first maybe 10 to 12KWh, to make up for those who use less than the 8KWh.

And more interesting, you will have low users on electric heating subsidising  those on gas or other forms of heating. 

pensioner2

There have been many tariffs which avoid a standing charge.    Until 2013 over65s could opt to pay a set annual charge divided by 12. [Staywarm].  No standing charge or unit charge, just an agreed amount based on property size and occupants.I expect many would object to this because it would give greedy pensioners an advance.  You could leave all the crystal light fittings on 24/7 without penalty and replace the cold LED bulbs with nice warm tungsten.

QrizB

pensioner2 said:

There have been many tariffs which avoid a standing charge.

This thread (and your previous one) seems to be based on your belief that Ofgem requires all tafiffs to have a standing charge.

There's no obligation on a supplier to have a standing charge. For any tariff other than their standard variable, pricing is entirely a commercial decision. If there was a viable market, they would offer them.

Utilita still have a number of no-standing-charge tariffs.

pensioner2 said:

Until 2013 over65s could opt to pay a set annual charge divided by 12. [Staywarm].  No standing charge or unit charge, just an agreed amount based on property size and occupants.I expect many would object to this because it would give greedy pensioners an advance.

Nothing to do with "greedy pensioners", I would object to a tariff like that under age discrimination law.

markin

"There are two million pensioners living in poverty in the UK - a figure that has risen sharply over the past year. A report published this month by the Centre for Ageing Better found there were 200,000 more poor pensioners in 2021. That means nearly one in five now fall below the official poverty threshold. 24 Mar 2022"

They should get extra help the other 4 probably don't need it, Many state they don't need the warm winter payments, So 4 out out 5 may not need it and is costing millions to the poor of all ages.

So 2 out of 12 million pensioners in the UK need help why should we subsides 12m pensioners.

Keep_pedalling

pensioner2 said:

I have been a tax payer for 65 years and have had to accept that some people take out more than they put in.    The case I make for removing the energy companies standing charge  is not about me.       The energy market needs drastic changes.     I have previously commented about the money wasted on so called smart meters which could have been replaced with Credit and Load Management units which I trialed 40 years ago.

But it is all about you! You want a system that favours people like you who are fortunate not to have a need for high energy use (I am willing to bet you have ample pension to afford it as well), over say another pensioner living in old housing stock with no gas who is already paying a very large portion of their income just to stay warm.

Gerry1

pensioner2 said:

There have been many tariffs which avoid a standing charge.    Until 2013 over65s could opt to pay a set annual charge divided by 12. [Staywarm].  No standing charge or unit charge, just an agreed amount based on property size and occupants.I expect many would object to this because it would give greedy pensioners an advance.  You could leave all the crystal light fittings on 24/7 without penalty and replace the cold LED bulbs with nice warm tungsten.

Right from the start, the Staywarm tariff fell far short of the gravity-defying scheme it was cracked up to be.  Hardly surprising, because a genuine unlimited All You Can Eat scheme can never be economically viable.

For a start, many older people always at home couldn't benefit, the scheme excluded everyone who had relatively high consumption.  Similarly, if you just turned the wick up higher for longer, your next renewal would be far more expensive or you'd be moved to an ordinary tariff.  It was seldom the cheapest quotation because it effectively included an insurance premium to mitigate profligate usage.

Basically Staywarm was a mirage, as was a similar scheme from Green Star Energy (later swallowed up by Shell).

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/power-giant-penalises-pensioners-6955790.html

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1583777/Powergen-scraps-pensioner-discount.html

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/uk-news/warning-over-fixed-bills-1635829

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2007/mar/17/utilities.moneysupplement

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2015/09/green-star-energy-launches-unlimited-gas-and-electricity-tariff-but-is-it-any-good/

BTW, you can get LED bulbs in umpteen colours, some much warmer than tungsten.  They're often used in restaurants as a feature to give a mellow atmosphere.  Search for colour temperatures around 2000K - 2700K or Very Warm.

https://www.thelightbulb.co.uk/5watt-gls-led-bc-b22-bayonet-cap-very-warm-white-gold-finish-equivalent-to-60watt-dimmable/

pensioner2

It has been interesting informative and sometimes amusing. Some have described me as selfish because I don't agree with them.  Better selfish than an idiot. I hope everyone will find a system which suits them.  I do not claim to speak for anyone else, unless you count an elderly friend who I try to help navigate the energy tariff minefield. My friend spends considerable but unpredictable amounts of time away from home and asks why his utility bills are so high when he isn't home.    In the past we could make an informed decision about tarriffs with low standing charge and high unit cost,       I have been amused about the false assumptions made about me. Pensioner2 could be a multi millionaire or a poor widow.     Finally I would advise those who express anti pensioner views to keep an eye on the ticking clock and the calendar.

Van_Girl

pochase said:

No idea where you get your figures. The highest standing charge for payment by direct debit is in the north West with 51.62p, that is £188.41 and not £300 for electricity.

My electric standing charge is currently 61.28p, on a DD tariff with Eon Next 

pochase

Van_Girl said:

pochase said:

No idea where you get your figures. The highest standing charge for payment by direct debit is in the north West with 51.62p, that is £188.41 and not £300 for electricity.

My electric standing charge is currently 61.28p, on a DD tariff with Eon Next 

Are you maybe on a fixed tariff? On SVT there is no 61.28p standing charge.