Do I need permission to take our child abroad?

ironlady2022

I have a child with my ex, who shares his surname.

Can I take my child abroad without informing him. Child has passport from when we were together. I would bring birth certificate and divorce papers to prove this.

We are not on good terms, and he refuses to do swaps, and makes my life as difficult as possible. He visits our child every two weeks, overnight Sat-Sun. So there is a window between 2 weekends, where he does not visit.

elsien

Does he have parental responsibility or is there a child arrangement order? 

ironlady2022

elsien said:

Does he have parental responsibility or is there a child arrangement order? 

Sorry forgot to mention, we both have PR. No CAO, that's one thing we agree on. 

ZaSa1418

ironlady2022 said:

elsien said:

Does he have parental responsibility or is there a child arrangement order? 

Sorry forgot to mention, we both have PR. No CAO, that's one thing we agree on. 

Technically if there is no court order then you need permission of everyone with Parental Responsibility. 
Will this holiday mean the ex is missing contact time? 

MalMonroe

I had a similar situation just after my marriage broke down. My friend in Canada invited my daughter (then aged 9) and myself over for a visit - she said that it may be good for us to get away for a while. We planned a three week visit and I didn't want to tell my daughter's dad because I wanted to exclude him from our lives altogether. I'd been very hurt, since he left me to go and live with someone else who also had kids, so he was acting as dad to someone else's children and not his own. In my depressed state I felt he didn't deserve to see his own daughter. Ever.

My solicitor advised me that I needed to send my daughter's dad a letter advising him that I was taking her out of the country for a three week holiday period and that I gave my word that we would be coming back. (I'd stupidly said that we were never coming back - but that would have been totally and utterly impossible, given Canada's very strict immigration policy). 

My daughter told me in no uncertain terms (at the age of 9) that she wanted to see her dad on a regular basis and that it was not up to me to decide that for her. She was 100% right.

You should never try to stop your child from seeing their dad. Your child will resent you for it and as he grows up will be more inclined to support their dad rather than you. 

This is not your decision to make. No matter how difficult your ex tries to make things, that is between you and him. Leave your child out of it.

You should advise your ex that you are taking your child overseas for a holiday and you should do it in writing, making it clear that you will be returning, and giving the date. 

Any other actions will simply make your ex even more difficult. Believe me, I've been there.

Now our daughter is an adult, my ex and I are on really good terms and my daughter loves us both. Her dad (now in his fourth marriage, would you believe?!) has been very supportive of her all her life, financially and otherwise. 

Please don't try to alienate your child and their dad. It will surely blow up in your face. You are hurt now - and that really is very understandable - but that has nothing to do with your child. Try to work with your ex, and be the bigger person. Ignore any bad behaviour. Your child will benefit from contact with you both.

elsien

MalMonroe said:

I had a similar situation just after my marriage broke down. My friend in Canada invited my daughter (then aged 9) and myself over for a visit - she said that it may be good for us to get away for a while. We planned a three week visit and I didn't want to tell my daughter's dad because I wanted to exclude him from our lives altogether. I'd been very hurt, since he left me to go and live with someone else who also had kids, so he was acting as dad to someone else's children and not his own. In my depressed state I felt he didn't deserve to see his own daughter. Ever.

My solicitor advised me that I needed to send my daughter's dad a letter advising him that I was taking her out of the country for a three week holiday period and that I gave my word that we would be coming back. (I'd stupidly said that we were never coming back - but that would have been totally and utterly impossible, given Canada's very strict immigration policy). 

My daughter told me in no uncertain terms (at the age of 9) that she wanted to see her dad on a regular basis and that it was not up to me to decide that for her. She was 100% right.

You should never try to stop your child from seeing their dad. Your child will resent you for it and as he grows up will be more inclined to support their dad rather than you. 

This is not your decision to make. No matter how difficult your ex tries to make things, that is between you and him. Leave your child out of it.

You should advise your ex that you are taking your child overseas for a holiday and you should do it in writing, making it clear that you will be returning, and giving the date. 

Any other actions will simply make your ex even more difficult. Believe me, I've been there.

Now our daughter is an adult, my ex and I are on really good terms and my daughter loves us both. Her dad (now in his fourth marriage, would you believe?!) has been very supportive of her all her life, financially and otherwise. 

Please don't try to alienate your child and their dad. It will surely blow up in your face. You are hurt now - and that really is very understandable - but that has nothing to do with your child. Try to work with your ex, and be the bigger person. Ignore any bad behaviour. Your child will benefit from contact with you both.

Talk about extrapolating from your own situation and running  with it. I think you need to reread the initial post. 

Nowhere has the OP said anything about trying to alienate anyone, or stopping the child seeing their father. They have simply asked about going on holiday. Nothing more.

If it doesn’t affect his contact time, but you don’t tell him and he finds out, what impact do you think that’s likely to have? Would your child normally message him in between visits, for example? 

Would he say no just to spite you, even if it impacted negatively on his child? Can you put it that way to him? 

ironlady2022

ZaSa1418 said:

ironlady2022 said:

elsien said:

Does he have parental responsibility or is there a child arrangement order? 

Sorry forgot to mention, we both have PR. No CAO, that's one thing we agree on. 

Technically if there is no court order then you need permission of everyone with Parental Responsibility. 
Will this holiday mean the ex is missing contact time? 

He will not miss out on contact time. 

So we could go on a Mon-Sun and also continue on second week from Mon-Fri (12 days maximum).

ironlady2022

MalMonroe said:

I had a similar situation just after my marriage broke down. My friend in Canada invited my daughter (then aged 9) and myself over for a visit - she said that it may be good for us to get away for a while. We planned a three week visit and I didn't want to tell my daughter's dad because I wanted to exclude him from our lives altogether. I'd been very hurt, since he left me to go and live with someone else who also had kids, so he was acting as dad to someone else's children and not his own. In my depressed state I felt he didn't deserve to see his own daughter. Ever.

My solicitor advised me that I needed to send my daughter's dad a letter advising him that I was taking her out of the country for a three week holiday period and that I gave my word that we would be coming back. (I'd stupidly said that we were never coming back - but that would have been totally and utterly impossible, given Canada's very strict immigration policy). 

My daughter told me in no uncertain terms (at the age of 9) that she wanted to see her dad on a regular basis and that it was not up to me to decide that for her. She was 100% right.

You should never try to stop your child from seeing their dad. Your child will resent you for it and as he grows up will be more inclined to support their dad rather than you. 

This is not your decision to make. No matter how difficult your ex tries to make things, that is between you and him. Leave your child out of it.

You should advise your ex that you are taking your child overseas for a holiday and you should do it in writing, making it clear that you will be returning, and giving the date. 

Any other actions will simply make your ex even more difficult. Believe me, I've been there.

Now our daughter is an adult, my ex and I are on really good terms and my daughter loves us both. Her dad (now in his fourth marriage, would you believe?!) has been very supportive of her all her life, financially and otherwise. 

Please don't try to alienate your child and their dad. It will surely blow up in your face. You are hurt now - and that really is very understandable - but that has nothing to do with your child. Try to work with your ex, and be the bigger person. Ignore any bad behaviour. Your child will benefit from contact with you both.

There's no parent alienation on my part. He sees her every two weeks. And he can ask for extra whenever he likes, he just doesn't take up my offer. 

ironlady2022

elsien said:

MalMonroe said:

I had a similar situation just after my marriage broke down. My friend in Canada invited my daughter (then aged 9) and myself over for a visit - she said that it may be good for us to get away for a while. We planned a three week visit and I didn't want to tell my daughter's dad because I wanted to exclude him from our lives altogether. I'd been very hurt, since he left me to go and live with someone else who also had kids, so he was acting as dad to someone else's children and not his own. In my depressed state I felt he didn't deserve to see his own daughter. Ever.

My solicitor advised me that I needed to send my daughter's dad a letter advising him that I was taking her out of the country for a three week holiday period and that I gave my word that we would be coming back. (I'd stupidly said that we were never coming back - but that would have been totally and utterly impossible, given Canada's very strict immigration policy). 

My daughter told me in no uncertain terms (at the age of 9) that she wanted to see her dad on a regular basis and that it was not up to me to decide that for her. She was 100% right.

You should never try to stop your child from seeing their dad. Your child will resent you for it and as he grows up will be more inclined to support their dad rather than you. 

This is not your decision to make. No matter how difficult your ex tries to make things, that is between you and him. Leave your child out of it.

You should advise your ex that you are taking your child overseas for a holiday and you should do it in writing, making it clear that you will be returning, and giving the date. 

Any other actions will simply make your ex even more difficult. Believe me, I've been there.

Now our daughter is an adult, my ex and I are on really good terms and my daughter loves us both. Her dad (now in his fourth marriage, would you believe?!) has been very supportive of her all her life, financially and otherwise. 

Please don't try to alienate your child and their dad. It will surely blow up in your face. You are hurt now - and that really is very understandable - but that has nothing to do with your child. Try to work with your ex, and be the bigger person. Ignore any bad behaviour. Your child will benefit from contact with you both.

Talk about extrapolating from your own situation and running  with it. I think you need to reread the initial post. 

Nowhere has the OP said anything about trying to alienate anyone, or stopping the child seeing their father. They have simply asked about going on holiday. Nothing more.

If it doesn’t affect his contact time, but you don’t tell him and he finds out, what impact do you think that’s likely to have? Would your child normally message him in between visits, for example? 

Would he say no just to spite you, even if it impacted negatively on his child? Can you put it that way to him? 

Thanks for understanding my situation. 

He's been saying no to all sorts as that's the type of person he is. I feel he's trying to get back at me. 

She's 3 so not really fully talking as yet. 

elsien

You could just take her and plead ignorance after the event if he does find out.  You need to decide if that's worth the additional problems it may cause in the future. 

ironlady2022

elsien said:

You could just take her and plead ignorance after the event if he does find out.  You need to decide if that's worth the additional problems it may cause in the future. 

Nah, he's seen a travel consent form I put together and agreed the info included was ok. 

I just know he will refuse and then it's onto court.