Restrictive Covenants - Keep Grassed area grassed and maintain and boundary structures and hedges

MrBounce

doodling said:

Hi

Are these traditional covenants?  I.e. is the house freehold with no form of management or estate charge?  If there is some form of leasehold or ongoing charge then what I have written below will be wrong.

If these are traditional covenants then in general positive covenants (i.e. covenants that actually require you to do something rather than ones that ban you from doing something) are not binding so there is nothing to stop you allowing the fence to fall down and the grass to die or grow to ridiculous height (but you can't do anything to encourage that process).  I suspect that the covenant could also be read as forbidding the replacement of grass with anything else so you'd be stuck with bare soil if you let the grass die.

A more pragmatic approach might be to understand what the likely response from those benefitting from the covenants would be.  Do the documents explicitly state who benefits from the covenants - it will usually be the original builder but they may explicitly give neighbours rights to enforce as well?  Ultimately if no-one is going to complain or notice then you can do what you want - are you aware of anyone else on the estate who has been contacted by the builder when they did something forbidden?

Thanks... 

The development is a small one with only about 8 houses, i am sure they would notice if made changes...

The document says... 

The following convenants are for the benefit of any parts of the estate owned by by transferor ans between all purchasers of the plots on the estate and shall be enforceable against the transferee. 

With this situation do we need to go through planning permission or does it sound like a no go? 

MrBounce

doodling said:

Hi

Are these traditional covenants?  I.e. is the house freehold with no form of management or estate charge?  If there is some form of leasehold or ongoing charge then what I have written below will be wrong.

If these are traditional covenants then in general positive covenants (i.e. covenants that actually require you to do something rather than ones that ban you from doing something) are not binding so there is nothing to stop you allowing the fence to fall down and the grass to die or grow to ridiculous height (but you can't do anything to encourage that process).  I suspect that the covenant could also be read as forbidding the replacement of grass with anything else so you'd be stuck with bare soil if you let the grass die.

A more pragmatic approach might be to understand what the likely response from those benefitting from the covenants would be.  Do the documents explicitly state who benefits from the covenants - it will usually be the original builder but they may explicitly give neighbours rights to enforce as well?  Ultimately if no-one is going to complain or notice then you can do what you want - are you aware of anyone else on the estate who has been contacted by the builder when they did something forbidden?

Thanks... 

Yes freehold with no charge.. 

The development is a small one with only about 8 houses, i am sure they would notice if made changes...

The document says... 

The following convenants are for the benefit of any parts of the estate owned by by transferor ans between all purchasers of the plots on the estate and shall be enforceable against the transferee. 

With this situation do we need to go through planning permission or does it sound like a no go? 

canaldumidi

MrBounce said:

doodling said:

Hi

Are these traditional covenants?  I.e. is the house freehold with no form of management or estate charge?  If there is some form of leasehold or ongoing charge then what I have written below will be wrong.

If these are traditional covenants then in general positive covenants (i.e. covenants that actually require you to do something rather than ones that ban you from doing something) are not binding so there is nothing to stop you allowing the fence to fall down and the grass to die or grow to ridiculous height (but you can't do anything to encourage that process).  I suspect that the covenant could also be read as forbidding the replacement of grass with anything else so you'd be stuck with bare soil if you let the grass die.

A more pragmatic approach might be to understand what the likely response from those benefitting from the covenants would be.  Do the documents explicitly state who benefits from the covenants - it will usually be the original builder but they may explicitly give neighbours rights to enforce as well?  Ultimately if no-one is going to complain or notice then you can do what you want - are you aware of anyone else on the estate who has been contacted by the builder when they did something forbidden?

Thanks... 

Yes freehold with no charge.. 

The development is a small one with only about 8 houses, i am sure they would notice if made changes...

The document says... 

The following convenants are for the benefit of any parts of the estate owned by by transferor ans between all purchasers of the plots on the estate and shall be enforceable against the transferee. 

With this situation do we need to go through planning permission or does it sound like a no go? 

It's not a Planning matter.

It looks like any of the other owners on the estate could enforce the covenant, and if there is a management comapny of some kind (eg maintenance of common areas) they could enforce.

But as I said, we need to see the entire document (plus the Title you are proposing to buy).

Or, better still, you need to drop in and speak to your conveyancer......

Section62

canaldumidi said:

MrBounce said:

doodling said:

Thanks... 

Yes freehold with no charge.. 

The development is a small one with only about 8 houses, i am sure they would notice if made changes...

The document says... 

The following convenants are for the benefit of any parts of the estate owned by by transferor ans between all purchasers of the plots on the estate and shall be enforceable against the transferee. 

With this situation do we need to go through planning permission or does it sound like a no go? 

It's not a Planning matter.

For clarity.... it could be a planning matter as well.  The covenants aren't part of the planning (except number 4), but I agree with you there was an intent to keep the development looking the way it does, and that may be reflected in planning conditions as well as in the covenants.  Covenant 4 is likely to be a direct reflection of one of the planning conditions.

If planning conditions exist and/or permitted development rights have been removed, then what the OP wants to do may require planning consent, in addition to any consent from the developer.

MrBounce

Section62 said:

canaldumidi said:

MrBounce said:

doodling said:

Thanks... 

Yes freehold with no charge.. 

The development is a small one with only about 8 houses, i am sure they would notice if made changes...

The document says... 

The following convenants are for the benefit of any parts of the estate owned by by transferor ans between all purchasers of the plots on the estate and shall be enforceable against the transferee. 

With this situation do we need to go through planning permission or does it sound like a no go? 

It's not a Planning matter.

For clarity.... it could be a planning matter as well.  The covenants aren't part of the planning (except number 4), but I agree with you there was an intent to keep the development looking the way it does, and that may be reflected in planning conditions as well as in the covenants.  Covenant 4 is likely to be a direct reflection of one of the planning conditions.

If planning conditions exist and/or permitted development rights have been removed, then what the OP wants to do may require planning consent, in addition to any consent from the developer.

Section62 said:

canaldumidi said:

MrBounce said:

doodling said:

Thanks... 

Yes freehold with no charge.. 

The development is a small one with only about 8 houses, i am sure they would notice if made changes...

The document says... 

The following convenants are for the benefit of any parts of the estate owned by by transferor ans between all purchasers of the plots on the estate and shall be enforceable against the transferee. 

With this situation do we need to go through planning permission or does it sound like a no go? 

It's not a Planning matter.

For clarity.... it could be a planning matter as well.  The covenants aren't part of the planning (except number 4), but I agree with you there was an intent to keep the development looking the way it does, and that may be reflected in planning conditions as well as in the covenants.  Covenant 4 is likely to be a direct reflection of one of the planning conditions.

If planning conditions exist and/or permitted development rights have been removed, then what the OP wants to do may require planning consent, in addition to any consent from the developer.

Thanks, i think the developer was released from any legal responsibility 5 years after the property was built, maybe when the council adopted the road.

I think it's possibly just the neighbours who could enforce.. 

I am awaiting a reply from conveyancer but i think that will be a while until i hear back... 

doodling

Hi,

There are two separate issues here leading to up to three sets of people you may need to keep happy.

1. With respect to the covenant there are two sets of people to consider:
1a. The original developer who could choose to enforce the covenant at any time unless they have given their agreement for it to be breached (I.e. force you to restore the grass and reerect an identical fence).
1b. Your neighbours who, if you have not got permission from the developer could also force you to restore things to as they are now.

2. With respect the planning, it may be that the planning permission for the houses had certain conditions which have been reflected in the covenants. In that case,  as well as dealing with the covenants you would also need to get planning permission to make changes.  To confirm this you need to look at the original planning permission for the houses and consider both it and what you propose to do in light of current planning law. Potentially you may need to seek planning permission from the council for a change.

The two issues above are separate and need to be dealt with separately.

MrBounce

Thanks for all your replies... I have since contacted the developers as I am still awaiting to hear from my solicitor... 

The developer has said that in principle it shouldn't be a problem, however i need to send them an upto date photo and a diagram of the proposed works.

Fingers crossed they agree..