Immersion heater tank on all the time

Bendy_House

Blimey!

As you say, RealGem, it sounds a bit nuts, but if it suits them, then hey...

What I often find with folk who don't 'get' what you are trying to explain is, best leave it alone... :-) If they 'reluctantly' act on your advice, and the outcome is subsequently 'worse' (whether it actually is, or whether they just convince themselves it is...), then you know who they'll blame.

Bottom line, tho', is this; a hot body will lose heat if it's surrounded by a cooler surface - the cylinder and the air, in this case. The bigger the temp difference, the bigger the heat transfer. So, if that cylinder is kept at a steady (let's say) 70oC, rather than being allowed to cycle between a max of 70oC and a partially-used, say, 60oC, then the heat loss will be greater. So, yes, they are 'wasting' energy.

Having said that, I doubt the difference is all that great, so not worth sticking yer' oar in :-)

It's still nuts for other reasons, tho' - how often will that immersion 'stat be popping on and off each day? I can't see that lasting too well! And, if it's really at 70oC, then that is wastefully high.

What a weird setup, tho' - they have a combi AND a hot cylinder?! Can you get to the bottom of why this is? If it is a case of inadequate flow and pressure from the combi, then perhaps a mains booster pump would make sense, and they could then lose the hot cylinder altogether. Mind you, a basic mains booster pump only delivers 12 litres per minute, so if they are getting great showers from their hot cylinder, or - more significantly - fast bath fills, then relying on a combi running at 12lpm will seriously pee them off!

It is possible, I understand, for the combi to also heat up the cylinder, so that would certainly save them significant energy costs (gas is far cheaper than leccy); the boiler's CH output would need splitting using 2-port valves, and one will supply the hot cylinder's heating coil when required. But, again, best not go there...

The only thing you could possibly suggest - without having your head taken off - is to turn the immersion's 'stat down to, say, 65oC. This 'stat will be under the immersion's round cover, and is NOT the 'stat on the side of the cylinder. On that point, IS there a 'stat on the side of the cylinder? And is it seemingly wired up?

(If you do get to the bottom of this strange combi AND cylinder setup, please report back!)

stuart45

When the old stats failed, it was potentially dangerous. When the boiling water went up to the tank, eventually the tank was full of boiling water. 
A plastic tank would split and people have been killed when underneath.

Bendy_House

stuart45 said:

When the old stats failed, it was potentially dangerous. When the boiling water went up to the tank, eventually the tank was full of boiling water. 
A plastic tank would split and people have been killed when underneath.

Didn't think of that. Scary.

 That's probably the single biggest reason not to have immersions powered on permanently.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

Blimey!

As you say, RealGem, it sounds a bit nuts, but if it suits them, then hey...

What I often find with folk who don't 'get' what you are trying to explain is, best leave it alone... :-) If they 'reluctantly' act on your advice, and the outcome is subsequently 'worse' (whether it actually is, or whether they just convince themselves it is...), then you know who they'll blame.

Bottom line, tho', is this; a hot body will lose heat if it's surrounded by a cooler surface - the cylinder and the air, in this case. The bigger the temp difference, the bigger the heat transfer. So, if that cylinder is kept at a steady (let's say) 70oC, rather than being allowed to cycle between a max of 70oC and a partially-used, say, 60oC, then the heat loss will be greater. So, yes, they are 'wasting' energy.

Having said that, I doubt the difference is all that great, so not worth sticking yer' oar in :-)

It's still nuts for other reasons, tho' - how often will that immersion 'stat be popping on and off each day? I can't see that lasting too well! And, if it's really at 70oC, then that is wastefully high.

What a weird setup, tho' - they have a combi AND a hot cylinder?! Can you get to the bottom of why this is? If it is a case of inadequate flow and pressure from the combi, then perhaps a mains booster pump would make sense, and they could then lose the hot cylinder altogether. Mind you, a basic mains booster pump only delivers 12 litres per minute, so if they are getting great showers from their hot cylinder, or - more significantly - fast bath fills, then relying on a combi running at 12lpm will seriously pee them off!

It is possible, I understand, for the combi to also heat up the cylinder, so that would certainly save them significant energy costs (gas is far cheaper than leccy); the boiler's CH output would need splitting using 2-port valves, and one will supply the hot cylinder's heating coil when required. But, again, best not go there...

The only thing you could possibly suggest - without having your head taken off - is to turn the immersion's 'stat down to, say, 65oC. This 'stat will be under the immersion's round cover, and is NOT the 'stat on the side of the cylinder. On that point, IS there a 'stat on the side of the cylinder? And is it seemingly wired up?

(If you do get to the bottom of this strange combi AND cylinder setup, please report back!)

As you said in the first para "best leave it alone".  If someone asks me for advice I'll offer advice.  If I see something dangerous I'll let the person responsible know.

If I met a 'young family' I wouldn't dream of attempting to redesign their hot water system for them unless asked, and certainly wouldn't keep on about it when they've made it fairly clear they aren't interested.

Bendy_House

Section62 said:

Bendy_House said:

Blimey!

As you say, RealGem, it sounds a bit nuts, but if it suits them, then hey...

What I often find with folk who don't 'get' what you are trying to explain is, best leave it alone... :-) If they 'reluctantly' act on your advice, and the outcome is subsequently 'worse' (whether it actually is, or whether they just convince themselves it is...), then you know who they'll blame.

Bottom line, tho', is this; a hot body will lose heat if it's surrounded by a cooler surface - the cylinder and the air, in this case. The bigger the temp difference, the bigger the heat transfer. So, if that cylinder is kept at a steady (let's say) 70oC, rather than being allowed to cycle between a max of 70oC and a partially-used, say, 60oC, then the heat loss will be greater. So, yes, they are 'wasting' energy.

Having said that, I doubt the difference is all that great, so not worth sticking yer' oar in :-)

It's still nuts for other reasons, tho' - how often will that immersion 'stat be popping on and off each day? I can't see that lasting too well! And, if it's really at 70oC, then that is wastefully high.

What a weird setup, tho' - they have a combi AND a hot cylinder?! Can you get to the bottom of why this is? If it is a case of inadequate flow and pressure from the combi, then perhaps a mains booster pump would make sense, and they could then lose the hot cylinder altogether. Mind you, a basic mains booster pump only delivers 12 litres per minute, so if they are getting great showers from their hot cylinder, or - more significantly - fast bath fills, then relying on a combi running at 12lpm will seriously pee them off!

It is possible, I understand, for the combi to also heat up the cylinder, so that would certainly save them significant energy costs (gas is far cheaper than leccy); the boiler's CH output would need splitting using 2-port valves, and one will supply the hot cylinder's heating coil when required. But, again, best not go there...

The only thing you could possibly suggest - without having your head taken off - is to turn the immersion's 'stat down to, say, 65oC. This 'stat will be under the immersion's round cover, and is NOT the 'stat on the side of the cylinder. On that point, IS there a 'stat on the side of the cylinder? And is it seemingly wired up?

(If you do get to the bottom of this strange combi AND cylinder setup, please report back!)

As you said in the first para "best leave it alone".  If someone asks me for advice I'll offer advice.  If I see something dangerous I'll let the person responsible know.

If I met a 'young family' I wouldn't dream of attempting to redesign their hot water system for them unless asked, and certainly wouldn't keep on about it when they've made it fairly clear they aren't interested.

Yeah. But sometimes I chust can't help myself... :-)