Neighbours extension overhanging boundary line

gwynlas

Best to get it all sorted now before any more works completed. What would happen should you or a future owner choose to extend in the same way?

Doozergirl

shoe_dog said:

Section62 said:

In an ideal world the first person to build puts up a double-skin, centred on the property boundary (or existing party wall), the cost of which is shared (possibly by a payment in the future) if the second person builds using 'their' side of the wall.  The first party gains by having part of 'their' extension on the second party's land, the second party gains by not needing to build that wall as part of their extension.

Funny you should mention that as this is exactly what we did when we built our loft, provided (at no cost to our neighbour) a double-skin wall in case our neighbour wanted to build a lost extension in the future, which of course he's now doing along with the kitchen and first floor bathroom. 

Ironically, at first he thought we'd built across the boundary line until i explained that we'd actually just provided a wall for him to use. 

Your neighbour now owes you half the cost of building that new party wall at today's rates.  I hope you know that already!  

shoe_dog

Doozergirl said:

shoe_dog said:

Section62 said:

In an ideal world the first person to build puts up a double-skin, centred on the property boundary (or existing party wall), the cost of which is shared (possibly by a payment in the future) if the second person builds using 'their' side of the wall.  The first party gains by having part of 'their' extension on the second party's land, the second party gains by not needing to build that wall as part of their extension.

Funny you should mention that as this is exactly what we did when we built our loft, provided (at no cost to our neighbour) a double-skin wall in case our neighbour wanted to build a lost extension in the future, which of course he's now doing along with the kitchen and first floor bathroom. 

Ironically, at first he thought we'd built across the boundary line until i explained that we'd actually just provided a wall for him to use. 

Your neighbour now owes you half the cost of building that new party wall at today's rates.  I hope you know that already!  

To be honest we didn't even know the builders had done it and we weren't charged any extra. When my neighbour flagged it up i asked my loft builders and they said they just do it out of courtesy now as they do so many loft conversions in our area it just became part of their practice to put up the double-skin whilst they're there. 

Doozergirl

shoe_dog said:

Doozergirl said:

shoe_dog said:

Section62 said:

In an ideal world the first person to build puts up a double-skin, centred on the property boundary (or existing party wall), the cost of which is shared (possibly by a payment in the future) if the second person builds using 'their' side of the wall.  The first party gains by having part of 'their' extension on the second party's land, the second party gains by not needing to build that wall as part of their extension.

Funny you should mention that as this is exactly what we did when we built our loft, provided (at no cost to our neighbour) a double-skin wall in case our neighbour wanted to build a lost extension in the future, which of course he's now doing along with the kitchen and first floor bathroom. 

Ironically, at first he thought we'd built across the boundary line until i explained that we'd actually just provided a wall for him to use. 

Your neighbour now owes you half the cost of building that new party wall at today's rates.  I hope you know that already!  

To be honest we didn't even know the builders had done it and we weren't charged any extra. When my neighbour flagged it up i asked my loft builders and they said they just do it out of courtesy now as they do so many loft conversions in our area it just became part of their practice to put up the double-skin whilst they're there. 

If it's their practice to do it then you paid for it. 

Your neighbour owes you for half of it under the Party Wall Act!  It's law, not courtesy.  

shoe_dog

UPDATE...

I spoke with my neighbour this morning and whilst he was obviously very concerned about the cost and time implications this will have, admitted that he possibly misinterpreted where the boundary line was thinking it was the centre of the fence posts. He's agreed to remove the offending guttering system that currently overhangs my property and work within the boundary line moving forwards. He has also asked his builders to revert back to the parapet wall design.

I then spoke with a party wall surveyor who suggested before involving any legal services to determine where the boundary line is, my neighbour and i try and arrive at a mutual agreement ourselves. To me it's obvious and whilst my neighbour agrees with where i think the line is, i'd be more comfortable if it was made a little more official before building work resumes. 

The PWS suggested filing a Boundary Wall agreement with HM Land Registry but this seems like quite a time intensive process and the land registry website itself says you can "usually avoid having to create a boundary agreement by having an informal discussion with your neighbour."

My question is, would a simple home-made agreement between us that includes a diagram i've created showing the boundary line (see image attached), signed and dated by both parties, act as good enough protection for me should anything creep over the line again?

Bendy_House

Well done, and that sounds very positive. Just keep an eye on it now that it is being done.

I personally wouldn't concern myself, or bother with, any moves to try and confirm the boundary line any more accurately than it is - it really does seem pretty bludy obvious where one house starts and t'other ends. Surely? And, once this extension has been built correctly, it'll confirm/reinforce where the true boundary is.

Regretfully, I take with a pinch of salt his claim that he may have misinterpreted where the true boundary line was - I just find this implausible. As I said above, it's pretty bludy obvious where your two houses join - and that's the boundary, to all intents and purposes.

I also find his claim implausible, as he must have known (his builder certainly did...) that the build did not follow the design in the plans. I mean, what happened? His builder changed the design and didn't tell him? Really?! And, if he did, your neighb did not notice this change? Really?!

Far more plausible is that they had a chat, the builder told him there's a cheaper and easier way to tackle that wall, and they both thought they'd get away with it.

On the balance of probabilities!

What does this mean moving forward? Only that you keep an eye and make damned sure they do change that wall.

Be a good neighbour - but, sadly, don't trust them an inch. :-(

What did the PWS say about being brought in should a concern arise? Can this be done as it would have before the job started?

koalakoala

How is he going to sort the guttering problem?

babyblade41

koalakoala said:

How is he going to sort the guttering problem?

That would be my concern too, but a great start now the neighbour has been called out politely 

Bendy_House

koalakoala said:

How is he going to sort the guttering problem?

Seemingly by going back to the original, more costly & complex, design; a raised parapet wall, and a rainwater gulley.

If they DON'T do this, the OP should tackle them again right away.

(Whether the OP feels they should also prompt the other affected neighbour is their call...)

shoe_dog

Bendy_House said:

What did the PWS say about being brought in should a concern arise? Can this be done as it would have before the job started?

The PWS said it's not actually under their jurisdiction to determine where a boundary line is, only to offer an opinion and anyone else can come along and offer a different opinion. It was his advice for my neighbour and I to try and arrive at a boundary line agreement ourselves which we've now done (i did actually get him to sign something just for my own peace of mind).

Also, my neighbour has agreed to rebuild the kitchen roof structure with the raised parapet walls and rain water gully. I can see that his builders have already started taking down the existing roof structure this morning so fingers crossed it will all end amicably.