County Court Claim - UKPC / St Marys View

estevenin

Coupon-mad said:

You say that you have added Jopson's transcript?

I gave you some extra words to add, in my first reply about their WS.  Didn't you use my words and find the bit I signposted you to find and quote, that the Judge in Jopson said about his findings also applying to drivers like postmen and milkmen?

Your Judge won't seek it out. The law is what you provide to the hearing.

You have to spell it out and call the C's witness out, as I said 24 hours ago but I didn't see this in your draft, unless I missed it:

You must point that out, quote from HHJ Harris and put a bomb under what young Josh has said.

Also, sense-check it for errors.  I don't expect your para 27 is the same as aphex's yet this bit you've copied says:

"Whilst it is known that the rogue parking industry have just filed Judicial Reviews and have delayed the new Code of Practice (as per paragraph 27),"

?

Also change the places where it says 'these are now banned costs'.  They are not.  The correct wording is easy enough to edit to say 'likely to be banned' but if you want to copy & paste it, the correct words are in the Template Defence sticky thread.



 

- Just added Jopson's transcript as an exhibit (had only added a link at the bottom of the page)

- I Believe that I did add those points, in 27 :

27. The Claimant has misleadingly said in their Witness Statement that "Jopson deals with different subject matter" but that's disingenuous, because in fact, his honour Judge Harris QC mentions that the decision applies not only to Miss Jopson, but also to any vehicle including commercial drivers such as milkmen, and how they cannot reasonably or fairly be bound by 'parking' terms when visiting briefly in the course of normal daily work activity such as loading/unloading items (or passengers), quoting again:

     “20. …Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes”…

     “21. …A milkman leaving his float to carry bottles to the flat would not be “parked”. Nor would a postman delivering letters, a wine merchant delivering a case of wine, and nor, I am satisfied, a retailer’s van, or indeed the appellant, unloading an awkward piece of furniture. Any other approach would leave life in the block of flats close to unworkable…”

From my readings those are the bits that apply to commercial activities, and it looks like they address what the Claimant is trying to say. Maybe I missed something ?

- Thank you, para 27 modified by para 37
- Sorted, changed the wording about the costs likely to be banned.
- Yes pages are all numbered and the index is properly numbered as well.
- Ok for the compression, I can do that as well.

So all seems good except maybe if I missed something about the Claimant / Jopson thing ?

Coupon-mad

Looks like you've done a great job in a short time.  Nicely done!

Make sure you put your new address in the covering email and point out it was clearly stated as the address for service in your Directions Questionnaire all along, so you are annoyed that both QDR and the court used your old address and you have never received a hearing notice.

This is plainly wrong and you ask QDR - being solicitors whose first duty is to the court - to assist the smooth running of the court process and send you their copy by return email.

Let's see if they do...but phone the court for it anyway...

estevenin

It was a rough day indeed. Thank you all for the feedback really. Ready to send it : (Removed by Forum Team)

Email is also ready, and I will phone in the morning :

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Dear Sir, Madam,

Please find attached my Witness Statement and Exhibits, for the Claim n. , UK Parking Control Limited vs . Please also find my initial Defence attached.

I have been made aware - by luck -, of an incoming hearing for this claim, on the 22nd of June 2023. Indeed, a third party in my old house has forwarded the Witness Statement from the Claimant this weekend, and I have just got that information through that bundle.

The Claimant has been using my old address, despite having sent the correct one more than a year ago, to both themselves and their legal team, in 2 seperate emails.

I also have not received any Hearing Directions from the court, not by post, nor by mail, so I assume this has been sent to my old address as well. My new address was clearly stated as the address for service in my Directions Questionnaire (N180), I am very annoyed that both QDR and the court haven't updated it, as I have never received a hearing notice and I could have easily missed it completely.

It also forced me to prepare the case in a very short notice.

Once again, I would ask to QDR and the court to please delete my old address (xxx), and replace it with my new address (xxx), as I have moved 2 and a half years ago, so I can finally receive communications in due course.

Could the court also kindly re-send the hearing order, in response to this email, so I can be aware of the hearing time and if it will be in person or video ?

I also kindly ask QDR to assist the smooth running of the court process, and also send me their copy by return email.

Thank you very much in advance,

Best regards,

(Removed by Forum Team) 

PD : Copy of this bundle is sent to QDR Solicitor Limited, Solicitor for the Claimant in that case.

====

Sent to :

enquiries@qdrsolicitors.com 

enquiries.watford.countycourt@justice.gov.uk

=============
=============

Thank you so much again everyone!! (Sorry this case kept you up more than usual @Coupon-mad)

Coupon-mad

You don't attach your defence.

They already have it from the CCBC and sending unnecessary attachments could cause the court to reject the whole bundle as containing too many pages.

estevenin

Coupon-mad said:

You don't attach your defence.

Alright no worries. I had seen that in case of a video hearing and the judge working from home, he might not have all the documents. But now I know the details so no need indeed. 

I phoned them so :
- The hearing is on the 22nd, at 10AM, in situ.
- The WS is not logged yet (I think it was a call center and she didn't have a hand on emails), I will chase them morning and evening until I have confirmation that it is.
- She said that I have to request by the mean of a letter (or mail), for them to send a copy of the hearing order. So I'll pop-in to the court and drop a letter, already did the mail request with my WS, and will chase them on that.
- They do have my correct address (!) and they said that they sent Hearing Directions in December 2022! I reviewed all my documents and I have nothing at all. There is no way I could have missed such an important paper, since I had in my calendar every two weeks to check MCOL for an update. (Now I know that MCOL no longer plays a part after transfering the case, but anyway that's what I was doing for about a year....) So unfortunately for me I think it just got lost in the Christmas Post Office mayhem (Funnily enough, I just received a package yesterday, and the address on it is for someone that lives 3 miles away from me!). I would excepect them to also send me an email for such an important document, or at least a signed-for letter, since there are no trackings online. That's a very "risky" process for the Defendant. You defending your case depends on a single 2nd class letter.

And UKPC played it cheeky by sending their WS at the very last moment AND at my old addresss, I could have missed the hearing date completely.

Time to get ready now, I will crawl the forum for instructions, read the "another one bites the dust" posts, and will try to learn both WS as much as my memory allows. I think I need to prepare my initial Defence speech by writing, it would be easier, I guess it will essentially be a summary of my Witness Statement.

Thanks a lot again!

Not_A_Hope

If it goes all the way to a hearing as well as having a list of all your key points understood, rehearsed and at hand make a big note to remember to ask the judge for your costs for attendance at least. Many people are so relieved when they win they forget to ask.

estevenin

Just a quick update:

I have been calling everyday, and they still haven't logged the WS. Apparently it's normal, lots of backlog, and they said that they could only contact the court and ask them to log it, if I call WITHIN 24h.

Within 24h is very short notice!!!

So following advices on the lovely person on the phone, I will :
- Send the WS by recorded delivery, tomorrow (such a waste or resources, the post office is right in front of the court, and both of them are within walking distance...)
- They also advised to write a certified statement, explaining that I haven't received the Hearing Directions and wasn't able to comply with the 14 days delay, and send it to the court prior to that. So this will be added in the recorded delivery. By the way, if the Claimant complain that my WS is not admissible, their WS is not admissible either, since they still haven't sent it to me (they sent it to an address that is not my address of service, therefore It's not deemed to be served)
- Finally they also advised to add that video evidence with a USB, added to the recorded delivery, so I will do that.
- I also have some supplemental evidence, I found some "marks" on the walls of removed / moved signs, not sure why, but this means that the Claimant's evidence is different from the evidence now (and the evidence THEN, as shown in my WS), so I will add that as well.

Will try to send that today but I think I will only be able to do it tomorrow. Hopefully 24h delivery will deliver...

This is my 2nd Parking Charge defence, and I received a first claim by default, because the court said that they didn't receive my defence. So I want to avoid the same thing happening again.

Had no other news so far so the hearing is probably happening. 

Le_Kirk

There is no such thing as recorded delivery, presume you mean a signed for service but if the post office is right in front of the court, why not walk over there and deliver it by hand?

estevenin said:
- Send the WS by recorded delivery, tomorrow (such a waste or resources, the post office is right in front of the court, and both of them are within walking distance...)

Seems the obvious thing to do!

Coupon-mad

As long as you get a receipt you can hand deliver.

estevenin

Coupon-mad said:

As long as you get a receipt you can hand deliver.

Le_Kirk said:

why not walk over there and deliver it by hand?

Alright, I didn't know that I could ask for a receipt and it would be valid. That's great will do that then!