COPE?

Rollingonandon

So I think the COPE amount would have only come from the NI payments. 

xylophone

Interestingly my own case does not seem to quite fit with the way this is worded.

I was in a 'salary related occupational scheme' from 1984, and in 1988 we were presented with an option by the employer, to set up a separate DC scheme and opt out of SERPS. 

Was it a contracted out salary related scheme? If so, you must have had a GMP.

What happened to this scheme in 1988? Did it close?

With regard to the Standard Life pension, are you saying that your employer replaced the DB scheme with a Contracted Out Money Purchase Scheme to which you and the employer contributed?

Brie

As i recall there used to be records produced showing applicable NI/Serps amounts which needed to be applied to the PPS being  held by individual pension firms.  These were computer generated records so must have originated in HMRC and so they must have records regarding this.  

You could of course go on a fishing trip to all the various pension providers from that time - Frizzell, LV, Lloyds etc and see if anyone has any record for you.

Albermarle

xylophone said:

Interestingly my own case does not seem to quite fit with the way this is worded.

I was in a 'salary related occupational scheme' from 1984, and in 1988 we were presented with an option by the employer, to set up a separate DC scheme and opt out of SERPS. 

Was it a contracted out salary related scheme?Not as far as I am aware. If so, you must have had a GMP.

What happened to this scheme in 1988? Did it close? No closed many years later 

With regard to the Standard Life pension, are you saying that your employer replaced the DB scheme with a Contracted Out Money Purchase Scheme to which you and the employer contributed? NO the DB scheme just carried on . So I had a DB scheme and separately a DC pension with Standard Life where the NI rebates for opting out of Serps were paid into by HMRC .

See comments above . As far as I always understood the DB scheme, and this SERPS related DC scheme were totally unrelated.
The employer just informed us that it was possible to opt out of SERPS. and have the NI rebated to a personal pension by HMRC.
Plus they sent some info about standard life pensions, and the pros and cons of opting out, but it was up to the individual.
Whether you went for this option or not, it had no effect on the DB pension.

xylophone

Whether you went for this option or not, it had no effect on the DB pension.

It is perfectly possible to have a DB pension and  a DC personal pension.

You remained a member of the DB Scheme.

Are you drawing this pension or are you a deferred member?

If deferred, were you give a statement of benefits on leaving the scheme?

xylophone

So I think the COPE amount would have only come from the NI payments. 

Do you mean that you think you started a pension policy in 1988 which received NI rebates?

It is possible that your SAR to HMRC will throw some light on the matter.

Rollingonandon

I might have the idea of COPE completely wrong. I thought that at one point in the past. Some time in the 1980s. There was an option to pay a lesser amount into NI. And the  amount left over along with employer's contributions could be used to open up a pension. Sorry if I've got this completely wrong.

Albermarle

xylophone said:

Whether you went for this option or not, it had no effect on the DB pension.

It is perfectly possible to have a DB pension and  a DC personal pension.

You remained a member of the DB Scheme.

Are you drawing this pension or are you a deferred member?

If deferred, were you give a statement of benefits on leaving the scheme?

Everything is OK . I have started drawing the DB pension last year( after months of delays with Mercer) and the DC pot is still untouched ( and going down recently )
 Your ( longer in italics) mail, only mentioned contracted out DC and DB schemes, and I was just trying to  make the point that it was also possible to have a non contracted out main scheme, and still be contracted out of SERPS via a separate DC personal pension.
I am sure you knew that, but thought might be of benefit to other readers.

xylophone

I might have the idea of COPE completely wrong. I thought that at one point in the past. Some time in the 1980s. There was an option to pay a lesser amount into NI. And the  amount left over along with employer's contributions could be used to open up a pension. Sorry if I've got this completely wrong.

The COPE on your forecast is the Contracted Out Pension Equivalent.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension-fact-sheets/contracting-out-and-why-we-may-have-included-a-contracted-out-pension-equivalent-cope-amount-when-you-used-the-online-service#:~:text=Pension Equivalent amount.-,The Contracted Out Pension Equivalent ( COPE ),had not been contracted out.

Many workplace pension schemes where the pension you get is linked to your earnings (for example – defined benefit, final salary or career-average salary schemes) contracted out all their scheme members as part of their scheme rules. If you were a member of a defined contribution workplace scheme (sometimes called a money purchase scheme) or bought a personal or stakeholder pension from a pension provider, you may also have been contracted out of the additional State Pension.

Did you open a personal pension and contract out of SERPS?

Do you have any recollection of a policy or perhaps of a mention of "protected rights"?

Rollingonandon

No. I wouldn't have been able to afford putting any money into a pension. Like I've said, the only thing that would of gone into the COPE would be the money from paying less NI. I would not have trusted the business owner to do anything unless he was benefitting from it. But I could be wrong.
I have written to Contracted Out Pension Scheme Services to see if they can give me some information. Fingers crossed I get a reply.