COPE?

Rollingonandon

Thanks for replies. Always worked for small businesses. And been self employed since about 1997.The company where I think the COPE is with, was the only place where I worked for any length of time. I do remember someone coming in to talk about pensions when i worked there. But which I didn't think I contracted out of.
I've just looked at my pension forecast and can't see anything. No COPE amount or pension forecast. I assume that is because I reach pension age tomorrow.

Albermarle

With the company in question, did you have a 'normal' pension that you paid into ( unrelated to this COPE issue)

Rollingonandon

No Just  payment to NI.

Rollingonandon

Started work 1972-3. The only place i worked for more than a few years was roughly 1984 to 1993. The amount of COPE when looking at my pension forecast was £20. This is why the COPE is I think from the company I worked for in this period.

Rollingonandon

Never received any statements or any annual updates. I have moved a few times. But still have sporadic contact with past addresses and nothing has been past on to me.

xylophone

Where did you work between 1978 and 1984?  And from 1993 - 1997?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/220339/abolition-contracting-out-dc-consultation.pdf

Between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997, employers sponsoring salary-related occupational pension schemes could 'contract out' their employees from SERPS through membership of the scheme, provided the scheme took on the responsibility for paying a minimum pension - a Guaranteed Minimum Pension (GMP). On reaching state pension age, members would generally have built up a GMP of a broadly similar amount to the SERPS pension to which they would otherwise have been entitled, had they stayed in the State system. Employees who are contracted-out pay lower, rebated, National Insurance contributions. This is because they are not going to receive a full SERPS pension. SERPS was later replaced by the State Second Pension (S2P) on 6 April 2002.

In 1988, contracting-out was extended to defined contribution (DC) (or money purchase) schemes, both occupational and personal schemes. These are called Contracted-Out Money Purchase Schemes (COMPS) and Appropriate Personal Pensions (APPs). Stakeholder pension schemes have also been able to contract out from 2002 and are a type of APP. Up until 5 April 1997 there was a link between contracting-out and the additional State Pension. Up until this date, people who were contracted-out could still get some SERPS pension in circumstances where the value of their GMP (or notional GMP, where they were contracted-out via a COMP or APP) is less than the pension they would have received had they remained in the state system. However, the link between contracting-out and the additional State Pension was broken from 6 April 1997 and those who were contracted-out did not accrue any additional State Pension after this date.

Brie

Do you recall ever having been contacted about a pension review?  This would have covered at least some of the period you are talking about. 

A small firm may well have set up either a group personal pension scheme or arranged for a financial adviser to talk to you and your colleagues about having a personal pension into which the company could pay or divert your NI.  Either of these situations I believe would exempt you from a review but you may well have received something from a personal pension provider to check on the situation.  Any recollection of this might help you locate your pension.

The alternative may have been an industry wide pension arrangement.  You mention engineering but could this have been a construction related role?  In which case you might check with B&CE which was originally set up as a holiday pay scheme for construction workers but evolved into pensions over time.   Might be worthwhile asking them.

B&CE (bandce.co.uk)

dunstonh

 And been self employed since about 1997.

As you were self employed, you wouldn't have been contracted out during that period but you wouldn't have obtained any qualification for SERPS/S2P either.  The self employed only built up entitlement to the basic state pension.  The changes in 2016 ended that difference.

Albermarle

xylophone said:

Where did you work between 1978 and 1984?  And from 1993 - 1997?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/220339/abolition-contracting-out-dc-consultation.pdf

Between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 1997, employers sponsoring salary-related occupational pension schemes could 'contract out' their employees from SERPS through membership of the scheme, provided the scheme took on the responsibility for paying a minimum pension - a Guaranteed Minimum Pension (GMP). On reaching state pension age, members would generally have built up a GMP of a broadly similar amount to the SERPS pension to which they would otherwise have been entitled, had they stayed in the State system. Employees who are contracted-out pay lower, rebated, National Insurance contributions. This is because they are not going to receive a full SERPS pension. SERPS was later replaced by the State Second Pension (S2P) on 6 April 2002.

In 1988, contracting-out was extended to defined contribution (DC) (or money purchase) schemes, both occupational and personal schemes. These are called Contracted-Out Money Purchase Schemes (COMPS) and Appropriate Personal Pensions (APPs). Stakeholder pension schemes have also been able to contract out from 2002 and are a type of APP. Up until 5 April 1997 there was a link between contracting-out and the additional State Pension. Up until this date, people who were contracted-out could still get some SERPS pension in circumstances where the value of their GMP (or notional GMP, where they were contracted-out via a COMP or APP) is less than the pension they would have received had they remained in the state system. However, the link between contracting-out and the additional State Pension was broken from 6 April 1997 and those who were contracted-out did not accrue any additional State Pension after this date.

Interestingly my own case does not seem to quite fit with the way this is worded.

I was in a 'salary related occupational scheme' from 1984, and in 1988 we were presented with an option by the employer, to set up a separate DC scheme and opt out of SERPS. The DB scheme was not involved at all, and really all the employer had done was to have  given us info from Standard Life explaining the pros and cons of opting out via a DC scheme,  and of course promoting themselves. No promises about maintaining a GMP were offered by the DB scheme, or the opt out DC scheme. I agreed and from the first payment ( April 1988) the only contact I have ever then had was with the DC provider, just the same as with a personal pension.
Although the NI rebates stopped some years ago, I still have this pension pot and in fact have since added to it a few years ago.

Rollingonandon

I might see If I can find a pay slip from the period and see if there is any additional information on it.
I know more about my finances being self employed. At the time I think the COPE was from I wouldn't have added any money to pension. Because i could not of afforded it. And the business owner wouldn't have done anything that would have cost him any extra.