PIP appeal

peteuk

tifo said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Sorry if I missed this, but out of interest  how many people on the panel? if there was three  did any of them dissent?

There were 3 people on the panel, none dissented from the others. Though it was the judge who said she didn't believe me and any of my evidence and that the HCP was more credible (the medical report was full of lies from someone who did not look at my evidence and spoke with me for 45 mins).

Average assessment time is set at 1 hour, they would have looked at you evidence prior either the assessment or when writing your report.  If there is evidence that discounts/discredits  your evidence you may not be aware of this.

Do you know for a fact they didn’t look at the evidence?  Are the descriptors backed by evidence? I realise its difficult as your personally involved, but if your looking for blame. It’s often the system rather than the assessor.  

tifo

peteuk said:

Average assessment time is set at 1 hour, they would have looked at you evidence prior either the assessment or when writing your report.  If there is evidence that discounts/discredits  your evidence you may not be aware of this.

Do you know for a fact they didn’t look at the evidence?  Are the descriptors backed by evidence? I realise its difficult as your personally involved, but if your looking for blame. It’s often the system rather than the assessor.  

In the medical report the assessor did not list any evidence they looked at apart from the PIP2 form. In addition to this I submitted pictures, hospital letters, doctors notes, 3 years of fitnotes. I took all this with me, esp the colour photos as the DWP scan in B&W and she was not interested in looking at anything. I can only go by what the medical report says and it says she did not look at my evidence.

Like i said, the report had statements which were not made, such as taking children to places where they'd go if they were young and mine are early 20s. There's no way I said this. And making assumptions like saying I walked 37m from the car park to the room and so I can walk over 200m.

I've never said I can't walk or do activities but have always stressed that i'm affected the majority of the time. So if i'm walking or shopping or driving this is in the minority of the time. Remember that 50.01% is technically the majority and it's a fine line. But some of my conditions are present 100% of the time and affect me more than 50% (uveitis, iritis, neovascular glaucoma, Many people get PIP just for these conditions). This is what 'they' don't accept, i.e. that i'm affected despite the conditions. However, 'their' doctor would know that the conditions always give rise to the affects I say.

HillStreetBlues

tifo said:

Remember that 50.01% is technically the majority and it's a fine line. But some of my conditions are present 100% of the time and affect me more than 50% (uveitis, iritis, neovascular glaucoma, Many people get PIP just for these conditions). This is what 'they' don't accept, i.e. that i'm affected despite the conditions. However, 'their' doctor would know that the conditions always give rise to the affects I say.

Having read your threads I know it's been pointed out to you by different people, PIP isn't awarded for having any condition.
You need to change your mindset going forward if either if you are granted any appeals,  or in re-applying in future.

poppy12345

Fit notes for a PIP appeal?

Spoonie_Turtle

poppy12345 said:

Fit notes for a PIP appeal?

Evidence of having the conditions and bring affected by them for that long, I guess.  I agree it's an odd choice of evidence though.

poppy12345

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

Fit notes for a PIP appeal?

Evidence of having the conditions and bring affected by them for that long, I guess.  I agree it's an odd choice of evidence though.

Do they even accept them for a PIP claim? My thoughts are they don't purely because PIP isn't about your ability to work.

Spoonie_Turtle

poppy12345 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

Fit notes for a PIP appeal?

Evidence of having the conditions and bring affected by them for that long, I guess.  I agree it's an odd choice of evidence though.

Do they even accept them for a PIP claim? My thoughts are they don't purely because PIP isn't about your ability to work.

No idea, but surely they're not going to post back any evidence they don't want, rather just ignore it.

Obviously if someone's sending in a fit note every time they get a new one I assume they'd probably tell the person to stop, but sending in old ones with the claim would not be an actual problem.  Just maybe pointless.

HillStreetBlues

Spoonie_Turtle said:

No idea, but surely they're not going to post back any evidence they don't want, rather just ignore it.

Obviously if someone's sending in a fit note every time they get a new one I assume they'd probably tell the person to stop, but sending in old ones with the claim would not be an actual problem.  Just maybe pointless.

Is there any mechanism to stop a claimant is submitting what they believe is evidence?

The major trouble I see is the more irrelevant paperwork there is to sieve though, the more important ones  get missed.
Also it they have to go though piles and piles on useless info, that person (rightly or wrongly) isn't going to be the most popular person in the room.

poppy12345

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

Fit notes for a PIP appeal?

Evidence of having the conditions and bring affected by them for that long, I guess.  I agree it's an odd choice of evidence though.

Do they even accept them for a PIP claim? My thoughts are they don't purely because PIP isn't about your ability to work.

No idea, but surely they're not going to post back any evidence they don't want, rather just ignore it.

Obviously if someone's sending in a fit note every time they get a new one I assume they'd probably tell the person to stop, but sending in old ones with the claim would not be an actual problem.  Just maybe pointless.

I didn't mean it as "they would return the fit notes" Sorry i didn't explain myself very well here. What i meant was they won't be used as evidence because it's not evidence.

This brings me back to the point i was trying to make in a previous comment that the OP was confusing LCWRA appeal with the PIP and this didn't help their case.

Muttleythefrog

Just as general point my view is anything that is consistent with what you're saying is potentially useful evidence and especially I imagine if there is some doubt as to honesty. Getting tailored evidence is obviously often difficult as the activities and descriptors are quite specific and I do wonder that if, as someone points out, there's a lot of evidence it might just cause them (decision maker or assessment HCP) to miss important things in their no doubt pressured time. But what I detail below shows they can use evidence including fit notes in these assessments or assessments that have used them, plus use evidence that is old and assessments from another benefit with different criteria... and even email exchanges trying to get a damned taxi paid for to get there!

I'm just looking at my last PIP and ESA WCA assessments quickly in the middle of the football... let me quote what evidence they used:

2019 Face to Face WCA - evidence stated as included and reviewed was:
Med 3 (which I believe is a fit note? - not provided by me at time so must've been on file), ESA113 (GP completed form?), previous report (that'll be a previous ESA assessment report) and memo, taxi request.
It then gives more detail - various emails from customer relations regarding taxi request, PIP report 2016, UCB form 2019 (is that some risk assessment regarding my suitability to be assessed by a HCP?), letters from psychiatrists and CPN, care coordination assessments 2010-11.

2020 PIP Assessment paper based - the how I made my decision section states looked at:
How your disability affects you form
health professional consultation report (paper based)
health professional assessment report for ESA (2019)
extra information (attached to the disability form I would imagine they refer to)
CPN reports 2010-11.

tifo - good luck with however you do pursue these claims. Obviously you've been advised regarding appeals and the limitations of options... but in any case going forward focus on the activities/descriptors (and obviously specifically for the relevant benefit) and try to have a consistent and evidenced argument for what applies. On the subject of medical conditions - as advised these benefits (barring exceptional cases) get awarded on the basis of effects of illness and disability rather than on the basis of the underlying conditions... however.... it seems very clear to me (and absolutely in my case for all assessments) that in order to explain the disablements having evidenced diagnosis surely must be helpful both to claimant and assessor. On my last PIP face to face assessment report every single assessor choice of descriptor was justified by reference to an underlying diagnosed condition for which in her mind it was consistent... and in completion of the forms I always describe the disablement (with real examples going methodically through trying to achieve the activity) and underpin such with the condition diagnosed which it is symptom of.