Why not A2AHP?

k_man

2nd_time_buyer said:

Here is the official government response I got toimagine that... the same question

Imagine that... A2AHP systems aren't efficient at heating domestic hot water!

But even though they are more efficient for space heating, adding A2AHP to policy would 'make it too complicated'....

Spies

Are a2ahp vat exempt as its advertised as being on appliance direct? 

QrizB

Spies said:

I'll email a couple of local companies, not sure what price point is considered 'good' but I'm hoping under £2k nearer £1.5k would be nice. 

Have you seen danrv's threads over on the "other fuels" sub-forum?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6269423/7-8k-for-aircon-system

ispookie666

Spies said:

Do split systems require any planning permission? Is the compressor fairly quiet?

Lastly any national installers? 

It depends on your ur council. 

I have experience in applying for PP for two units and just in the consultation stages for a third unit. 
I have noticed my council has slightly changed the wordings in the last year. It now implies "Any heat pump which can cool needs a PP". 

A bit of pain to do the PP. A few hours and a few hundred pounds to get this done. 

I f you have other dwellings close by, the environmental officer will want to see a  noise assessment survey to determine the likely impact taking into account ambient noise. 
Noise assessment surveys cost upwards of £ 1000(just had this done)

I would not put it across the council's to start demanding these for A2W HP when they get noise complaints. 

Spies

If I have to get PP or a noise survey that ultimately kills the idea, can't they just say that the compressor needs to be under a certain dB level which is in the specs? 

2nd_time_buyer

"Since the end of 2011, if you live in England, all heat pumps (air, ground and water) are considered a permitted development, so no planning permission is required. This was legislated in parliament to make it easier for individuals to install renewable technologies for their homes. Different outcomes apply however if you live in a listed property, conservation area or a world heritage site"

I am an acoustics consultant. Notwithstanding the above, we have had jobs where there have still been noise complaints from heat pumps which have been upheld. This is usually for older units which have become noisier and larger industrial units. However, it is worth trying to consider the noise and aesthetics for the neighbors.

My experience from our unit is that it is practically inaudible beyond 4m. It is at ground floor and behind a fence so not really visible to the the neighbor either.  There is a tendancy for people to complain about noise when really they are completing about aesthetics as it is easier to put a number in. 

Martyn1981

2nd_time_buyer said:

"Since the end of 2011, if you live in England, all heat pumps (air, ground and water) are considered a permitted development, so no planning permission is required. This was legislated in parliament to make it easier for individuals to install renewable technologies for their homes. Different outcomes apply however if you live in a listed property, conservation area or a world heritage site"

I am an acoustics consultant. Notwithstanding the above, we have had jobs where there have still been noise complaints from heat pumps which have been upheld. This is usually for older units which have become noisier and larger industrial units. However, it is worth trying to consider the noise and aesthetics for the neighbors.

My experience from our unit is that it is practically inaudible beyond 4m. It is at ground floor and behind a fence so not really visible to the the neighbor either.  There is a tendancy for people to complain about noise when really they are completing about aesthetics as it is easier to put a number in. 

Thanks, ours are incredibly quiet (IMO). As you say, about 4m away you can't hear them, and nearer it's still quiet, less than a quiet conversation.

Regarding planning permission though for a 'proper' ASHP, I thought you needed PP in England if within 1m of a boundary? I mention this, because when I was looking into an A2W big unit, I based my calcs on this, only to find in Wales the rule is 3m, which for terrace properties, and most semi's, means they will need planning permission.

For the small A/C units (best not to use the words 'heat pump'), I was told I only needed permission if it was visible to the front, and significantly altered the appearance, but they are quiet small, and mounted low down, so I rolled the dice.

ed110220

Ectophile said:

michaels said:

My suspicion is that A2A can also be used as AC which sounds like 'luxury for rich people' and also 'hardly good for the environment' hence A2A beign rejected (plus probably there is much less scope for a whole MCS industry so no suppliers would be pushing for it)

It only takes one extra valve to make a heat pump that can switch to being air conditioning.  Once people realise that, they will ask for the reversible ones, and start using air conditioning all summer.

At that point the "green" energy saving idea of heat pumps goes out of the window.

I'm not convinced that British summers are warm enough for electricity use from cooling in typical homes to be significant in the scheme of things. Yes, we get some hot days when people might use cooling, but enough to really be a factor? Besides, sunny summer days when people are likely to want cooling are going to be times when energy is abundant.

Cooling is only really necessary in large buildings where natural heat loss is too small eg shopping centres, large offices etc.

ispookie666

@2nd_time_buyer
I will have to disagree on the requirement of planning permission. Unfortunately, any system which can cool requires one.  The current systems are very very quiet and the legislation is lagging behind technology, but when they are installed and like with any machinery the noise will increase over time. This will be a big problem in built up areas where the ambient noise is low. 

The below is from the Environmental Planning Officer in relation to my planning application. The distance from the two units to the nearest dwelling/house are 8m and 11m respectively and I live right next to a busy road.  

  

ispookie666

@ed110220 We have been using the heat pump in cooling mode for the last few weeks.  Our bedrooms are south facing and gets really warm, I wish the roof orientation was south!    

@Martyn1981 @2nd_time_buyer   99% of the times this would not be a problem.  I think it was @Reed_Richards who pointed me in the direction of PP.  Knowing my luck with everything, I would definitely be the 1%