Waters & Gate debt collectors

Lynxzy

Hi,

I started a business in summer 2021 and utilised a company called Trust Payments as the transaction merchant. All was well, and they had a setup fee that was paid via a percentage of transactions.

In late Sept 2021, I postponed business as it wasn't going as well as planned and contacted the company that I needed to close the account. The account manager said thats fine, there was one last part to pay and that it would come out in the next few weeks. Money did come out and I assumed as I had no further response, that everything was settled.

Then in January, the company contacted me for still having around £210 to pay still. I asked why this is the case as was told everything was paid, but they did not respond. THen the contacted again, showing a breakdown of costs and why I still owed £210, but it was not clear (they called it a funding account breakdown). I asked the question again but received no response. They then closed the ticket down, stating it was resolved.

Then suddenly in April this year, I receive just an SMS from Waters & Gate stating I have a debt of £822!! I called them and I asked what as going on. I was polite and supplied all correspondence showing that I was in the middle of dispute with the company and didn't receive answers. They said they would go back to the company. About 4 weeks later, Waters & Gate said I owed only £308 now, again via just an SMS (no official emails or letters have ever come through). I emailed again asking whats going on, they just said Trust Payments responded by adjusting the balance on my account, no other answer. They now state they have done as much as they can now and if I dont want to pay, they will just pass it to their legal department. The tone of the emails have become rather blunt and rude now. They mention this would incur additional costs.
Still, I have received zero letters or official documentation.

What leg do I have to stand on here? I want to be given direct evidence as to why I owe this money and the breakdown of why. I want to see where it states I need to pay this, and I was asking this from the original company (Trust Payments). All these requests are just ignored, they just want the money.

I think this is frankly unfair, because if I am originally told all is OK right back in September, then why all this now? I preface that all times with Trust Payments, there was never a clear breakdown of costs and how they worked. They were originally called SecureTrading but looks like they had terrible reviews and maybe renamed a while ago.

Thanks for reading and in advance for anything you can help with.

sourcrates

You don`t need a leg to stand on, you need to dispute the debt in writing, not over the phone or by text, in writing.

Waters and Gate, are just another run of the mill debt collector, acting on behalf of their client, so they can`t do anything without the client say so.

Do the above, anything to do with debt has to be disputed in writing, see what response comes back, if any.

Should they get legal, then the process involves an LBA to be sent first, its a questionnaire type document that allows you to ask for evidence of liability, so again, another bite at the cherry, if they were to take this further, then you would defend the claim on the basis of the amount being chased being incorrect, and no evidence of liability supplied, on that score as it stands, they won`t get past first base.

Sandtree

sourcrates said:

Should they get legal, then the process involves an LBA to be sent first, its a questionnaire type document that allows you to ask for evidence of liability, so again, another bite at the cherry

The LBA is universal but a questionnaire? Does that apply to a B2B contact? Certainly no one here says about sending a questionnaire to a company before suing them. 

sourcrates

Sandtree said:

sourcrates said:

Should they get legal, then the process involves an LBA to be sent first, its a questionnaire type document that allows you to ask for evidence of liability, so again, another bite at the cherry

The LBA is universal but a questionnaire? Does that apply to a B2B contact? Certainly no one here says about sending a questionnaire to a company before suing them. 

LBA`s can take many forms, a questionnaire type document is possibly the wrong description for it.

A standard LBA gives you options to make offers of payment, or to settle in full, to agree you owe the debt, or to dispute all or some of it, to ask for evidence of liability or to accept liability, basically its a series of statements with yes/no answers as a response to most questions.

Lynxzy

Thank you for the responses

i have disputed in email asking questions to both Trust Payments and Waters & Gate. Are you saying that I should sent a written letter instead?

I received an email on the 20th saying if the payment wasn’t received by yesterday, they would proceed to legal action. This is after having only one text message stating I needed to pay. No letters, no emails and not even a method on how to pay…

I am happy to send a letter, do I just send it to W&G?

Lynxzy

“ Good morning,

They responded by adjusting the balance on your account.

We have done as much as we can at this point. 

If you are still disputing the amount and are not willing to pay we will just pass it to our legal department to deal with.

Please let me know which you would prefer. 

I must make you aware that the additional costs of being passed to our legal apartment will be added to the balance.”I received this, and then replied:“ That is not a response. They have reduced the amount, but why was it so high in the first place? Why did they reduce it? Why are there charges at all?

To be honest, I have already told Trust I would proceed with legal action if I did not get any response.

Without reason and evidence, I cannot proceed. I have provided my evidence.

What are your additional costs to go to the legal department? 

Additionally, where is w&g paperwork? I have only received a text message from yourselves and this email chain, which I instigated.

What if you sent the text to a phone I didn't use anymore? How would you contact me? Where are the reasons and basis and documentation for this debt collection?“

And that was responded by “Pay us by Monday or it goes to legal”

sourcrates

Usual DCA bluster, they know as well as anyone, they have to follow the civil procedure rules, and the first rule is always to supply evidence of liability when asked, that is also a requirement of an LBA, so whichever way you look at it, evidence has to be supplied before any court action can take place.

If they don`t provide any, and go ahead anyway, that`s more fuel for your fire, courts take a dim view of those who do not adhere to proper procedure, and they will have to supply this evidence to the court anyway.

They say you owe money, you say prove it, and that`s what they have to do.

Of course they are hoping their threats of legal action spur you into paying them, very olde school tactics, and quite nauseatingly boring of them, thinking we can`t use Google....fools.

Lynxzy

Thanks for the information mate that clears it up for me and I kind of already make sense to me in that way. 

I’ve just had a reply asking me what information do I want? When I have made it very clear. 

It might be best for me to just reply with evidence of why I need to pay, what it is I’m paying for and why none of me previous queries were ever resolved?

Lynxzy

I received a reply on this after a long delay stating:

- that I called them twice and apparently we going around in circles (they haven’t answered any of my questions) for months (it’s been 2 months)

- they have passed it to the legal team and threatened a CCJ on my name for 6 years. 

I haven’t received any reference no.s for my case so far, no letter or any type of account details that I would think are pertinent. (Despite the fact that they have insisted they have sent me a letter)

Not even sure what I do here? I just explained to them they still haven’t answered my questions, the initial company Trust payments are ignoring my calls and they just send threatening emails to pay. 

Thanks

sourcrates

Don`t ever call, do everything in writing only.

Sounds to me like they can`t back up there claim, or just can`t be bothered to provide any evidence, so are hoping you give in to their well worn out threats.

This is a well used template phrase they like to use to up the ante -

"they have passed it to the legal team and threatened a CCJ on my name for 6 years". 

This is the point they are hoping you are so deflated that you just accept what they say as gospel, and pay up, this is actually quite interesting from my point of view, as they appear to be using old school debt collection practices, long since outlawed and disregarded by many other collection companies.

As I said above, ultimately you may have to defend any claim they may make against you, they are hoping you are unfamiliar with the civil procedure rules, as I said before.

Something you can do, is send a back up to the provit letter, I have linked too it here -

Letter when you know nothing about about the debt - AKA "Prove it" letter — MoneySavingExpert Forum

scroll down till you find it, there are a number of options for you to choose, just copy and paste the relevant sections in to the letter, and don`t forget to edit it to your circumstances.

You are in the right here, so I suggest you stand your ground, a collection company must supply evidence of your liability when asked to do so, its all in the FCA consumer credit handbook, referred too as "CONC".

RAS

Hi, looks like you've been using email etc.

For legal stuff, send a physical letter, with proof of posting (no need for signed for).

It's less than a quid and they need to reply in writing, which gives you evidence.