Inheritance Hidden From Me By Family Members

TBagpuss

Ty66ty said:

Thank you for your reply.

I do not know if the cheque was cashed or not. The solicitor can't or won't tell me. He also can't or won't tell me exactly how the cheque was written. There are three possible scenarios;

1) My brother threw the cheque and all further correspondence away and did not tell anyone.

2) My brother and father both knew about my inheritance and they threw the cheque and all further correspondence away.

3) My dad cashed the cheque into a joint account he had with my mum. My mum and I have the same initial and obviously the same surname.

At the time of the inheritance my mum and dad were recently divorced. As is the norm, not on good terms. I remember my dad saying at the time he had kept a joint account open which my mum for some reason didn't have access too. I'm unsure why she didn't have access to it. But I remember him saying it and he kept it open because for some reason it was useful for him in hiding or keeping money from my mum.

I think what is important to understand is the time, place and circumstances. It was 20 years ago when the banking laws were much more relaxed. This all happened in a very small town. My parents at the time were well known and respected. The bank or building society involved would have known them well over many years. My dad would have been trusted to be honest and something slightly unusual would not have been flagged. Where as if it was a random person in a city Bank it would have been. Money is very important to my dad and brother. I really didn't think they would have hidden an inheritance from me. But one or both clearly have. If they have, I would not put it past them cashing my cheque and splitting the money. Something my brother has said also leads me to believe this.

My father is in a position to repay the money. For me it has nothing to do with the money. It is about proving what my brother and possibly my father also did. 

1 & 2 are extremely unlikely as the solicitors would have picked up on the fact that the cheques had not been cashed. Soliccitors accounts rules are pretty strongent and involve regualr reconciliations and audits. If it had been a couple of pounds then they might have sent (say) stamps to the value owed to allow them to close down the file, but £5,000 is too much for that.

From whst you describe, it soundsas though the solicitors did nothing wrong and while it is correct that limitation runs from when you might reasonably have known of the loss the is a latent damages rule which gives a backstop of 15 years, so even if the solicitros were at fault it would be too late (for this reason, many solicitors have 15 years as the time period they retain old files before they are destroyed) 

Unfortuantely, given the timescales involved, it is your word agsint that of your father - it's unlikelythat there are any bank records remaining .
you may be able to raise it with your father, point out that you never recieved the money, that the solicitors have confirmed that the money was sent by cheque to his account and that you know he has a joint account with your mother at the rtime and that it would have been possible for a cheque to be paid into that as she had the same initial.

You can say to him that provided the money is now paid to you you are willing not to take it further.

However, realistically I think there is unlikely to be anything you could do to take it further, if he doesn't budge. 

You say it is not about the money but about priving what they did. Proving to who? 
IF you are 100% sure that you never hd the money they you have already proven it to yourself.

It doesn't sound as though your brother or father are likely to admit anything even if you had firm proof. 

And in the case of third parties, I suspect that if they haven't already got a view on the estrangement between you and your father tey are probably not going to suddenly develop one, or hange sides. 

You can, of course, tell people that you recently learned that you were left £5,000, that the chequre was sent to your fathers home but never reached you and that you belive that the solicitors would have followed up had the cque not been paid in, all of which is true. they can then draw their own conclusions if they wish to do so. 

TBagpuss

Frogletina said:

JJWSJS8700 said:

Solicitors do keep wills and paperwork from 20yrs ago, even thought they might tell you they don’t, as they did me.

  

When I was dealing with probate I found a letter saying that it would cost £50 to obtain all archived paperwork and that it would be destroyed within 7 years unless requested. I thought it was strange especially if it might have contained a will.

I did ask for then to look for a will within that paperwork, and they couldn't find one. 

 

In many cases, wills and deed are stored separately from files. If therewas an original will being held by solicitors then it would not be destroyed even if the file was, if probate had been completed then the will would be on record with the probate office.

Solicitors MAY keep files for 20 years or longer. Archiving is expensive - if the solicitors have (say) lots of space on their own premises then they may keep things for longer, and historically it used to be the case that will and property transactio documents were kept for much longer so some firms may still do so. Most , however, will have policies for files to be destryed after a set period of time. 15 years is common because of the latent damages act, 6-7 years because of normal limitation, longer periods where the client was a child as limitation runs from when they were 18 etc .

Given data protetion rules even firms which used to keep files much longer may have changed their policies becuase of the requirement to twll people what data they will be retaining, and for how long.

There is nothing to stop them destroying the file as soon as it is clsoed, but normally they keep them longer to be able to defend themselves should there be any complaint or claim.

However, it sounds as though OP has now learned that the cheque was cashed by her mother and brother, so it doesn't sound as though it involves the solicitors at all. 

JJWSJS8700

Wills and deeds are stored away separately from the file.

in their string room they advise and s copy given to client.

Hasn’t anyone  here made a will through a solicitor, they keep it until you die, otherwise what is the point of naming it..., why is this causing confusion.

GDB2222

JJWSJS8700 said:

Wills and deeds are stored away separately from the file.

in their string room they advise and s copy given to client.

Hasn’t anyone  here made a will through a solicitor, they keep it until you die, otherwise what is the point of naming it..., why is this causing confusion.

I've made a will through a solicitor, and he gave it to me to look after. It might have been different if the solicitor were named as executor.

It's really a mug's game for a solicitor to keep records longer than the bare minimum. First, it costs money. And, second, whilst the records help the solicitor defend claims for negligence, the records need to be disclosed to the client, and they can be used to help the client build their case. 

p00hsticks

TBagpuss said:

Ty66ty said:

Thank you for your reply.

I do not know if the cheque was cashed or not. The solicitor can't or won't tell me. He also can't or won't tell me exactly how the cheque was written. There are three possible scenarios;

1) My brother threw the cheque and all further correspondence away and did not tell anyone.

2) My brother and father both knew about my inheritance and they threw the cheque and all further correspondence away.

3) My dad cashed the cheque into a joint account he had with my mum. My mum and I have the same initial and obviously the same surname.

1 & 2 are extremely unlikely as the solicitors would have picked up on the fact that the cheques had not been cashed. Soliccitors accounts rules are pretty strongent and involve regualr reconciliations and audits. If it had been a couple of pounds then they might have sent (say) stamps to the value owed to allow them to close down the file, but £5,000 is too much for that.

I agree with this - it's very unlikely that a solicitor will not have picked up failry early on that there was both a cheque uncashed and a corresponding sum of money still sitting in the executors account awaiting distribution. Far more likely that the cheque has been cashed by someone, but after this amount of time the solicitor or their bank is not going to be able to say by whom....

tboo

tooldle said:

If it is not an impolite question, how old were you (OP) when the cheque was issued? 

I'd hazard a guess, going by the user name, he was born in 1966 (currently 56) so 36 ish then

Ty66ty said:

My nan died nearly 20 years ago.

At the time my mother and I were not speaking. We didn't for 14 years.

I apologise OP if you are much younger.

OP

Why do you think they stole this money from you?

Was it the opportunity? As you were not around at the time. Or desperate maybe?

Your brother admitting it now, I realise to be spiteful, is probably doing it because he knows it's now unrecoverable.

Stealing off a son/brother is one thing, but they also disrespected their mum/grandmother by doing this.

Ty66ty

Sorry for the late reply.

I was in my early thirties when the probate was registered. It took 2.5 years to be completed because my mum contested the will.

At the time of my nan's death my mum and dad were separated. My dad and brother were living in the family home. Which is the address on the will. My brother and I got 5k each. My dad and mum got nothing. Both were furious about it. I don't care about money. It means a great deal to the 3 of them.

I wasn't speaking to my mum at the time of my nans death and didn't for a long time. But we had until the last few days been reconciled. Things have never been great with either my brother or father. 

The start of this was my telling my brother and father I'd had enough of the way I was and had been treated by them both. And it was time to just call it a day. Things obviously got said. Looking back now my brother mentioned the money knowing I would work it out. Thus rubbing it in while knowing it was highly likely mum and I would also fall out. He's clearly jealous we were getting on so well.

I initially thought it was my dad and brother because of the falling out. I quickly worked out it was most likely my mum and brother but wouldn't admit it to myself because I knew it would also mean falling out with mum. Eventually it just gnawed away until I couldn't hold it in.

It's all obvious now with hindsight. My mum and brother knew about the money from the beginning. My brother was in the will. My mum contested the will and my mum and brother were getting on well then and seeing each other regularly. My mum said some years back that she had obtained a copy of the will not long after my nan's death. I now know that could have only come from me, my brother and the main beneficiary. It wasn't me or the main beneficiary. My brother got to the post before my dad because of their working hours. My mum has the same initial and surname. All very easy to do.

I've always said the same thing from the beginning. This is why I know there's no way I could have forgotten it. Nobody got anything. I don't think anybody deserved too anyway (for reasons I won't go into). I know I didn't because I didn't see my nan for 18 month's before she died. Nobody has ever contradicted that statement over the years. There was no mention of anybody getting any money until my brother mentioned it a few months ago. I immediately got a copy of the will online.

Why did they do it? My mum was furious she got nothing. There is 'another side' to my mum. My brother as you can tell is extremely spiteful and at the time was angry about something he had no right to be angry about. He obviously told my mum what I said. So they thought. If you think you don't deserve anything. You're not going to getting anything.

From what's been said and not said by my family and on here. I think there's very little doubt my mum cashed my cheque through one of her accounts. As I said earlier the solicitor has a date 2 weeks before my brother in regard to the payment amount. That is highly unlikely seeing as I wasn't living at the address, wasn't speaking to my mum and I hardly saw my dad and brother. As I said earlier it was too see if it cleared. If it was flagged they would have claimed it was a mistake because of the same name.

Sorry for another essay. Writing it down has helped. It was a long time ago. I keep remembering things here and there which piece it all together. Thank you all for your replies and advice.

Ty66ty

Just to add. Does my dad know? Who knows? He claims to have thought the same as me. Nobody got anything. They're all clearly lying. It's just whether it's for the same reason or separate reasons.

tooldle

What is it that you want to do OP? As things stand you have only assumption and supposition with a large dose of bias.
Unless any of the people concerned are willing to admit their involvement, or you are able to find evidence, this is going nowhere.

Consider the other perspective, before doing anything further. 
"Nobody has ever contradicted that statement over the years" maybe this is because your money was taken, equally it maybe easier to not get involved or correct an incorrect statement, or deal with the outcomes of such a correction etc. My sibling throws around accusations / incorrect statements on a regular basis. If anyone 'corrects' these statements they tend to find themselves on the receiving end of an unpleasant experience. I'm not saying for a moment that you would behave similar, simply that people have their reasons for responding how they do, and those reasons are not necessarily aligned to how you interpret them to be.

Spendless

Ty66ty said:

Just to add. Does my dad know? Who knows? He claims to have thought the same as me. Nobody got anything. They're all clearly lying. It's just whether it's for the same reason or separate reasons.

Possibly, if the joint account was something he was still using/accessing in and statements went to his address or he checked the bank balance at the ATM and thought an additional £5K in there was odd. Alternatively he might not have known this way but has been told by your brother/Mum what happened. The only one who can answer that is your Dad and you may not think he's being truthful anyway whatever his reply is. If your Mum also had her own bank account which is quite possible since they were divorced by this stage, it's quite possible it went into her own bank account and your Dad doesn't know. I have a joint current account with my husband and also one just in my name. I can pay cheques in with my name/initial on into either and the same with savings accounts. It's not necessarily been paid into the joint account. I can see why you thought this when you believed your Dad was involved because it isn't him that shares an initial with you and this would be how he could do it.


Your brother knows as he's the one who said something in the first place. Your Mum is involved, either knowingly or not because using her same initial bank account to cash the cheque is the only thing that makes sense from what you've put.