trivial commutation tax for a child

vickyholly

Hi, Sadly my husband passed away in Jan, in the main ive sorted out all the paperwork. But i am confused about a NAT WEST pension, My daughter who is 11yrs, is entitled to a surving child pension, its not a large amount , but i could take a yearly payment until she finished school or a lump sum now. I chose to take the lump sum. I have just received the payment called "trivial commutation ". She has been taxed 20% on it, They did tell me this would happen, but can i claim this back ? its under 10k. Thanks

Like

Comment

Send

xylophone

If the payment was due to your daughter, then it seems to me that she would be entitled to the rebate.

Did the pension administrator give you no guidance in this respect?

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-enquiries-for-individuals-pensioners-and-employees

You could telephone HMRC or write to the address provided giving full details and providing  copies of documentary evidence of the payment.

Keep a copy of your letter and send signed for.

vickyholly

RAng Hmrc, its not straight forward at all, They really didnt seem to know what to do. They have advised me to fill in form P5OZ , Write a covering letter and send copies of as much evidence / certificates as possible. The form requires a NZ number etc which obviosly she doesnt have. The lady insinuated it would takes months to sort out. Its crazy to me that Willis tower watkins  would even take the tax off am 11yr old, The lady said she had never heard of it before. Just when i thought i was nearly done with all this, i dont think people realise how upsetting and sressful it is for the bereaved.

vickyholly

All I was told is that she would be taxed,  Hmrc can't even find a record of her, Willis tower Watkins have given me nothing but stress throughout all of this,  Really terrible service especially when you are at your most vulnerable 

molerat

WTW had no option but to deduct tax at BR, that is a tax regulation irrespective of age.  The person at HMRC obviously had little clue, it must have happened loads of times.  I would have thought a P53 would be more correct https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-repayment-claim-when-small-pension-taken-as-a-lump-sum-p53

An NI number is not necessary, you will cover it all in the accompanying letter.  Unfortunately it will likely take many months as HMRC are in a total mess especially with anything that has to be done with actual bits of paper.

vickyholly

molerat said:

WTW had no option but to deduct tax at BR, that is a tax regulation irrespective of age.  The person at HMRC obviously had little clue, it must have happened loads of times.  I would have thought a P53 would be more correct https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-repayment-claim-when-small-pension-taken-as-a-lump-sum-p53

Oh OK, I'll have a look at that form, I was on hold for ages while she wa tslking to different people trying to work it out

Marcon

vickyholly said:

molerat said:

WTW had no option but to deduct tax at BR, that is a tax regulation irrespective of age.  The person at HMRC obviously had little clue, it must have happened loads of times.  I would have thought a P53 would be more correct https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-repayment-claim-when-small-pension-taken-as-a-lump-sum-p53

Oh OK, I'll have a look at that form, I was on hold for ages while she wa tslking to different people trying to work it out

I've just logged in via my Government Gateway account to check what questions the P53 asks and I don't think it's a runner for a child - no NI number and also 'you can't claim online for someone else', so I think you're scuppered even before you start.

Suggest you write to HMRC along the following lines:

Following the death of my husband [full name/DOB/NI no]  on [date], my young daughter [full name/DOB] became entitled to a child's pension from his NatWest pension scheme. This could be taken as a yearly payment until she finishes school, or trivially commuted. The pension has been trivially commuted and the gross amount [£.....] has been paid minus 20% tax - i.e. [£.... was actually received]. When I rang HMRC to enquire how to claim back the tax, I was told to fill in a Form P50Z (which clearly doesn't apply to this situation) and 'send copies of as much evidence / certificates as possible'. I attach a copy of my daughter's birth certificate and a copy of the correspondence I have received from the scheme administrators, Willis Towers Watson.

This is an immensely stressful time for me and I would appreciate constructive help, so would you please deal with this as soon as possible?

Please confirm receipt of this letter and give me an indication of when the refund will be paid.

I'd send it 'signed for' delivery and keep a screenshot of confirmation that it was received by HMRC. I think the best address to use is:

Pay As You Earn and Self Assessment 
HM Revenue and Customs 
BX9 1AS 
United Kingdom 


(Any improvements on the above from other posters more than welcome.)

vickyholly

I've just logged in via my Government Gateway account to check what questions the P53 asks and I don't think it's a runner for a child - no NI number and also 'you can't claim online for someone else', so I think you're scuppered even before you start.

Suggest you write to HMRC along the following lines:

Following the death of my husband [full name/DOB/NI no]  on [date], my young daughter [full name/DOB] became entitled to a child's pension from his NatWest pension scheme. This could be taken as a yearly payment until she finishes school, or trivially commuted. The pension has been trivially commuted and the gross amount [£.....] has been paid minus 20% tax - i.e. [£.... was actually received]. When I rang HMRC to enquire how to claim back the tax, I was told to fill in a Form P50Z (which clearly doesn't apply to this situation) and 'send copies of as much evidence / certificates as possible'. I attach a copy of my daughter's birth certificate and a copy of the correspondence I have received from the scheme administrators, Willis Towers Watson.

This is an immensely stressful time for me and I would appreciate constructive help, so would you please deal with this as soon as possible?

Please confirm receipt of this letter and give me an indication of when the refund will be paid.

I'd send it 'signed for' delivery and keep a screenshot of confirmation that it was received by HMRC. I think the best address to use is:

Pay As You Earn and Self Assessment 
HM Revenue and Customs 
BX9 1AS 
United Kingdom 


(Any improvements on the above from other posters more than welcome.)

Thankyou so much, that's so kind of you , I really appreciate your kindness 

xylophone

Hmrc can't even find a record of her, 

Surely you are claiming Child Benefit for your daughter? If so, HMRC must have a record of her.

vickyholly

xylophone said:

Hmrc can't even find a record of her, 

Surely you are claiming Child Benefit for your daughter? If so, HMRC must have a record of her.

Yes, , maybe she meant she couldnt find the tax record??

xylophone

maybe she meant she couldnt find the tax record??

Would she expect to find one for the average 11 year old?