Guide discussion: Voluntary national insurance contributions

myriaangeli

Hello all,

I would also like to ask a question in case you can help weather it worth's to pay or not the voluntary contribution. My father (British) he left UK after working for 7 years and moved to France to continue working and living there. He is now 70 years old retired in France. He got a letter from the "The pension service" stating that his forecast (39.61£ per week in total for basic and additional). And then he received a letter from Department of work and pension stating that they cant pay him UK pensions as he has to pay 3 years voluntary contribution. 

I called them and i managed to understand that for the 3 years he is class 3 and he has to pay 3* £824 and that he was eligible to get pension scheme since 2018 when he turned 65.

Am i right understanding that he has to pay 

3*824= 2472

and then he can claim 

5years * 52(weeks) * 39.61£ = 10298£

Are the above correct or am i missing anything

molerat

Are the above correct or am i missing anything

The pension is not backdated.  The increased rates, and I believe the whole pension, will start from receipt of payment.

Suhusa

myriaangeli said:

Hello all,

I would also like to ask a question in case you can help weather it worth's to pay or not the voluntary contribution. My father (British) he left UK after working for 7 years and moved to France to continue working and living there. He is now 70 years old retired in France. He got a letter from the "The pension service" stating that his forecast (39.61£ per week in total for basic and additional). And then he received a letter from Department of work and pension stating that they cant pay him UK pensions as he has to pay 3 years voluntary contribution. 

I called them and i managed to understand that for the 3 years he is class 3 and he has to pay 3* £824 and that he was eligible to get pension scheme since 2018 when he turned 65.

Am i right understanding that he has to pay 

3*824= 2472

and then he can claim 

5years * 52(weeks) * 39.61£ = 10298£

Are the above correct or am i missing anything

Whatever the DWP has been doing, they've been doing it wrong. What normally happens is this: Both countries do two calculations for their pension payments - one only taking their own years and contributions into account and one taking the other country's years (but not necessarily their contributions) into account and your father would get the higher of the two pensions. I have no idea if the UK contributions would make a difference to the French pension, but the French years will mean he'll just get his £39.15 payment because the French years will lift him over the 10 years you need to get any UK pension at all (as explained here: https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/living-and-working-overseas ). So you should tell DWP that he has enough French years to get him a UK payment.

Of course if he does pay his UK pension will be higher, but given that he worked overseas he may get those years on a bargain by paying Class 2. He should be eligible if he's worked right until he left for France - for example I can pay Class 2 having stopped work 3 weeks before moving to Germany. Look for leaflet NI38 which contains form CF83, which you can also fill in retrospectively.

randm

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

randm said:

MallyGirl said:

randm said:

I have a question please. Neither my husband or myself are able to access the pension area  or national insurance area on government gateway site. I rang through to pension forecast and was cut off, so I then filled out the forms for both of us and we have since had our forecasts through which both show the current pension amount. My question is this ……..if we had missing qualifying n.i. Years, or gaps in our n.i. Payments would this show on our pension forecast, or should I still try and phone through and ask if there are any missing gaps . Thank you.

If you say what your forecast is - based on contributions up to which tax year - then people can tell you whether it is worth investigating gaps.

hi, thanks for the reply, it states we will get the maximum new state pension of £203.85 a week, on contributions up to this tax year(,if we keep paying in for a few more years) we are both early 50's. i just wanted to know whether or not theN.I information would have been show on the forecasts if either of us had any missing.

You seem to be contradicting yourself there.

Maybe make life easier for everyone and just provide the full detail of your forecasts?

sorry, forgot to bookmark the discussion and couldn't find it !  okay so thank you, you are correct, i have made a mistake.

so for my husband it says he can get his pension sept 2036, his forecast is £203.85 a week, this based on his n.i. record up to 5 april 2022 .......£203.85 a week is the most you(he) can get, you (he) cannot improve your forecast any more. you may still need to pay n.i.contributions until sept 2036.

and then mine ( i was wrong - apologies) states that my forecast is £185.15  a week , that i need to continue to contribute n.i. to reach my forecast.

estimate based on n.i. record up to 5 april 2022 £176.42 a week,........ forecast if i contribute another 2 years before 5 april 2038 is £ 185.15.............. £185.15 a week is the most i can get............................ when i reach £185.15 i may still need to pay n.i. contributions until july 2038 if i am working.

Sarahspangles

randm said:

sorry, forgot to bookmark the discussion and couldn't find it !  okay so thank you, you are correct, i have made a mistake.

so for my husband it says he can get his pension sept 2036, his forecast is £203.85 a week, this based on his n.i. record up to 5 april 2022 .......£203.85 a week is the most you(he) can get, you (he) cannot improve your forecast any more. you may still need to pay n.i.contributions until sept 2036.

and then mine ( i was wrong - apologies) states that my forecast is £185.15  a week , that i need to continue to contribute n.i. to reach my forecast.

estimate based on n.i. record up to 5 april 2022 £176.42 a week,........ forecast if i contribute another 2 years before 5 april 2038 is £ 185.15.............. £185.15 a week is the most i can get............................ when i reach £185.15 i may still need to pay n.i. contributions until july 2038 if i am working.

Did you access your pension forecasts a few days apart? Your husband’s is at the max rate that state pension was increased to a few weeks ago (to keep pace with inflation) whereas yours is quoted at the old rate.

But assuming you worked last tax year (to 5 April 2023) and are planning on working this year, it looks like you will qualify by next April (coincidentally, so will I)

Princeofstrikers

Hi,
I have been trying for days to get through to the Government helpline without success.
My contributions for 2009-2010 show 'part year, we're looking into this etc' and have been for a couple of years.
By my reckoning, I missed 2 weeks in November 2009 and 1 week in February 2010 - can anyone advise how much paying the shortfall would be (roughly of course!) and by how much it might increase my pension, please?
Had a search of the forum and can't find anything but apologies if I've missed it.
In other words, is it worth it?
Thanks

molerat

Princeofstrikers said:

Hi,
I have been trying for days to get through to the Government helpline without success.
My contributions for 2009-2010 show 'part year, we're looking into this etc' and have been for a couple of years.
By my reckoning, I missed 2 weeks in November 2009 and 1 week in February 2010 - can anyone advise how much paying the shortfall would be (roughly of course!) and by how much it might increase my pension, please?
Had a search of the forum and can't find anything but apologies if I've missed it.
In other words, is it worth it?
Thanks

Self employed ? 

3 weeks would cost £9.45 at class 2 or £47.55 at class 3.

How much will it increase your pension - £0.00, £5.21 or £5.82 depending on your personal circumstances. The full breakdown of your forecast is needed to give a more sensible / accurate answer.

Current £££.pp amount accrued up to April 2022 (or 2023 as some have been updated)
Number of pre 2016 NI years full
Number of post 2016 NI years full
Tax year you reach state retirement
Any COPE amount shown, in a click link in "You've been in a contracted-out pension scheme" if there is one.

pinnks

Suhusa said:

myriaangeli said:

Hello all,

I would also like to ask a question in case you can help weather it worth's to pay or not the voluntary contribution. My father (British) he left UK after working for 7 years and moved to France to continue working and living there. He is now 70 years old retired in France. He got a letter from the "The pension service" stating that his forecast (39.61£ per week in total for basic and additional). And then he received a letter from Department of work and pension stating that they cant pay him UK pensions as he has to pay 3 years voluntary contribution. 

I called them and i managed to understand that for the 3 years he is class 3 and he has to pay 3* £824 and that he was eligible to get pension scheme since 2018 when he turned 65.

Am i right understanding that he has to pay 

3*824= 2472

and then he can claim 

5years * 52(weeks) * 39.61£ = 10298£

Are the above correct or am i missing anything

Whatever the DWP has been doing, they've been doing it wrong. What normally happens is this: Both countries do two calculations for their pension payments - one only taking their own years and contributions into account and one taking the other country's years (but not necessarily their contributions) into account and your father would get the higher of the two pensions. I have no idea if the UK contributions would make a difference to the French pension, but the French years will mean he'll just get his £39.15 payment because the French years will lift him over the 10 years you need to get any UK pension at all (as explained here: https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/living-and-working-overseas ). So you should tell DWP that he has enough French years to get him a UK payment.

Of course if he does pay his UK pension will be higher, but given that he worked overseas he may get those years on a bargain by paying Class 2. He should be eligible if he's worked right until he left for France - for example I can pay Class 2 having stopped work 3 weeks before moving to Germany. Look for leaflet NI38 which contains form CF83, which you can also fill in retrospectively.

I agree with Suhusa.  As your father was resident in France before the end of the transition period he is covered by the EU Withdrawal Agreement and the EU rules on the coordination of social security systems continue to apply.  His years in France will be aggregated with those in the UK and if that gets him past the required 10 years for a UK pension he will get a pension based on his actual UK years.

If he submits a CF83 to HMRC before 31 July 2023 he will be able to pay any missing UK years from 2006/07 until the tax year that ends immediately before he reaches/ed state pension age.  If he was resident in the UK for at least 3 years before moving to France and was employed here immediately before leaving and worked in France then he should qualify to pay Class 2 NI at about £163 for each year purchased.  Payback is about 8 months.

When you submit the CF83, select Class 2, tick box 25, leave the bank details blank and include a letter saying you will settle for class 3 if you do not qualify for class 2.  HMRC will then send a schedule of years and costs and give about 8 weeks for you to decide whether to pay all, some or nothing.  

SwiftSuzie

pinnks said:

Suhusa said:

myriaangeli said:

Hello all,

I would also like to ask a question in case you can help weather it worth's to pay or not the voluntary contribution. My father (British) he left UK after working for 7 years and moved to France to continue working and living there. He is now 70 years old retired in France. He got a letter from the "The pension service" stating that his forecast (39.61£ per week in total for basic and additional). And then he received a letter from Department of work and pension stating that they cant pay him UK pensions as he has to pay 3 years voluntary contribution. 

I called them and i managed to understand that for the 3 years he is class 3 and he has to pay 3* £824 and that he was eligible to get pension scheme since 2018 when he turned 65.

Am i right understanding that he has to pay 

3*824= 2472

and then he can claim 

5years * 52(weeks) * 39.61£ = 10298£

Are the above correct or am i missing anything

Whatever the DWP has been doing, they've been doing it wrong. What normally happens is this: Both countries do two calculations for their pension payments - one only taking their own years and contributions into account and one taking the other country's years (but not necessarily their contributions) into account and your father would get the higher of the two pensions. I have no idea if the UK contributions would make a difference to the French pension, but the French years will mean he'll just get his £39.15 payment because the French years will lift him over the 10 years you need to get any UK pension at all (as explained here: https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/living-and-working-overseas ). So you should tell DWP that he has enough French years to get him a UK payment.

Of course if he does pay his UK pension will be higher, but given that he worked overseas he may get those years on a bargain by paying Class 2. He should be eligible if he's worked right until he left for France - for example I can pay Class 2 having stopped work 3 weeks before moving to Germany. Look for leaflet NI38 which contains form CF83, which you can also fill in retrospectively.

I agree with Suhusa.  As your father was resident in France before the end of the transition period he is covered by the EU Withdrawal Agreement and the EU rules on the coordination of social security systems continue to apply.  His years in France will be aggregated with those in the UK and if that gets him past the required 10 years for a UK pension he will get a pension based on his actual UK years.

If he submits a CF83 to HMRC before 31 July 2023 he will be able to pay any missing UK years from 2006/07 until the tax year that ends immediately before he reaches/ed state pension age.  If he was resident in the UK for at least 3 years before moving to France and was employed here immediately before leaving and worked in France then he should qualify to pay Class 2 NI at about £163 for each year purchased.  Payback is about 8 months.

When you submit the CF83, select Class 2, tick box 25, leave the bank details blank and include a letter saying you will settle for class 3 if you do not qualify for class 2.  HMRC will then send a schedule of years and costs and give about 8 weeks for you to decide whether to pay all, some or nothing.  

Spot on. I have done this in the past couple of weeks. Been abroad for 30 years and was going to pay Class 3 for the 17 years from 2006 to double my UK pension. Advised on here to request Class 2. Did so with evidence of overseas employment, and received a quote for Class 2 by return. Big difference between £2.7k and £14k.

Princeofstrikers

molerat said:

Princeofstrikers said:

Hi,
I have been trying for days to get through to the Government helpline without success.
My contributions for 2009-2010 show 'part year, we're looking into this etc' and have been for a couple of years.
By my reckoning, I missed 2 weeks in November 2009 and 1 week in February 2010 - can anyone advise how much paying the shortfall would be (roughly of course!) and by how much it might increase my pension, please?
Had a search of the forum and can't find anything but apologies if I've missed it.
In other words, is it worth it?
Thanks

Self employed ? 

3 weeks would cost £9.45 at class 2 or £47.55 at class 3.

How much will it increase your pension - £0.00, £5.21 or £5.82 depending on your personal circumstances. The full breakdown of your forecast is needed to give a more sensible / accurate answer.

Current £££.pp amount accrued up to April 2022 (or 2023 as some have been updated)
Number of pre 2016 NI years full
Number of post 2016 NI years full
Tax year you reach state retirement
Any COPE amount shown, in a click link in "You've been in a contracted-out pension scheme" if there is one.

Thanks - forecast shows Your forecast is £173.29 a week, £753.50 a month, £9,042.02 a year
The 3 weeks I missed in 2009-2010, I was between jobs but hadn't signed on.
Your COPE estimate is £12.20 a week
Pre 2016 years in full 21 plus 2009/10 - Year is not full - We are checking this year to see if it counts towards your pension. We’ll update your record when this is finished, you do not need to do anything.

Post 2016 years in full 7 - retiral age in September 2024 so will be 8 full plus April-Sept 2024 - don't know how that works.
Can I ask is the £0.00, £5.21 or £5.82 you mention per week? If so, would seem logical to pay the difference.
Is there another way to find out from HMRC other than phoning them? Option 1, 4, 1 and then either cut off or engaged. The one time I got it ringing, I waited an hour and then had to hang up.