A Single Solar Panel

QrizB

arty688 said:

OK so if you had an electrician put a dedicated circuit which is something you could get organised quite easily and then installed this would that be legal ?

I think so, yes. But I'm not a sparky (and most of the ones I know are industrial, not Part P).

Martyn1981

arty688 said:

OK so if you had an electrician put a dedicated circuit which is something you could get organised quite easily and then installed this would that be legal ?

And you'd have to notify the DNO as you've added a SSEG (small scale electricity generation) to the local grid.

Also bear in mind, that if you use a plug in PV device, plugged into a 'normal' circuit, thus breaching UK regs, then you will most likely have voided your home insurance, regardless of the cause of any problem that arises.

arty688

Martyn1981 said:

arty688 said:

OK so if you had an electrician put a dedicated circuit which is something you could get organised quite easily and then installed this would that be legal ?

And you'd have to notify the DNO as you've added a SSEG (small scale electricity generation) to the local grid.

Also bear in mind, that if you use a plug in PV device, plugged into a 'normal' circuit, thus breaching UK regs, then you will most likely have voided your home insurance, regardless of the cause of any problem that arises.

Instructions on how to fill the paperwork is in there manual so they seem to think notifying the DNO is no problem.

I think the plugged in bit they get around with there isolator box which they seem to think doesn't breach UK regs. If it does or not I have no idea (I have not read the regs and never intend to so)and it maybe nobody willunless there was a court case. Remember what you think you know is not always the legal interpretation.  

Again I'm not planning on having this its just out there and wondered how they got away with selling it if it was illegal.  

Heedtheadvice

One can buy parts all over. It is not illegal to sell them.

Installation needs to confirm to law and regulations.

The only point of contention is their advice regarding installation and therefore things like advertising standards.

No?

Martyn1981

arty688 said:

Martyn1981 said:

arty688 said:

OK so if you had an electrician put a dedicated circuit which is something you could get organised quite easily and then installed this would that be legal ?

And you'd have to notify the DNO as you've added a SSEG (small scale electricity generation) to the local grid.

Also bear in mind, that if you use a plug in PV device, plugged into a 'normal' circuit, thus breaching UK regs, then you will most likely have voided your home insurance, regardless of the cause of any problem that arises.

Instructions on how to fill the paperwork is in there manual so they seem to think notifying the DNO is no problem.

I think the plugged in bit they get around with there isolator box which they seem to think doesn't breach UK regs. If it does or not I have no idea (I have not read the regs and never intend to so)and it maybe nobody willunless there was a court case. Remember what you think you know is not always the legal interpretation.  

Again I'm not planning on having this its just out there and wondered how they got away with selling it if it was illegal.  

Here's the info that I've typically seen folk directed to over the last .... hmm 10 years each time the 'plug-n-play' PV systems come up. It's not helped by the fact that in some European countries it is allowed.

2.3 Design Part 3 – a.c. System
2.3.1 a.c. Cabling

An inverter supplied from a PV array must preferably be installed in a dedicated circuit in which:
● no current-using equipment is connected, and
● no provision is made for the connection of current-using equipment, and
● no socket-outlets are permitted.

An inverter must not be connected by means of a plug with contacts which may be live when exposed.

Where an electrical installation includes a PV power supply system without at least simple separation between the a.c. side and the d.c. side, an RCD installed to provide fault protection by automatic disconnection of supply must be type B RCD according to BS EN 60898 (IEC 60755, amendment 2).

a.c. cables are to be specified and installed in accordance with BS 7671.

Photovoltaics in Buildings Guide to the installation of PV systems 2nd Edition

Guide to the Installation of Photovoltaic Systems

The PV system inverter(s) should be installed on a dedicated final circuit to the requirements of BS 7671 in which: 

Sharp eyed viewers will note the word preferably in the first line (but not in the second document). On the Navitron forum (now closed) I did chat with a sparkie who kinda explained how to get around this, but the outrage from other sparkies on the forum only calmed down when he explained that it wasn't a good idea and he wouldn't do it in his own home, and would follow the rules as specified above.

A year later, I was visiting one of the forum mods and having a nice cup of tea, and reminiscing as you do, and this matter came up. I was told the Mods had had a chat and came within a hairs breadth of nuking the guys account - (edit) over legality and safety concerns.

mnbvcxz

There used to be the suggestion that Solar under 800w  did not need a DNO notification.  Though once you have had it installed by a qualified electrician that's probably a significant advantage...

Heedtheadvice

....and you can add, Martyn, "should" not "must" or "shall" in the second quote from the guide.

Many will interpret should and guide to be not mandatory and will ignore good, if not best, practice.

Often those ignoring the guidance, if the matter came to a legal or insurance action, would have to prove that the method adopted was no worse than the practice adopted by the industry to comply with the guidance.

So easiest just to comply....and conform with the need for competence!

deannagone

I live in a council maisonette, also lowish income and very worried about the future.  Managing fine right now, cut back on washing / heating quite stringently (we all wear layers of warm clothing rather than turn heating on if possible) etc like others do but electricity bill still quite high in spite of my best efforts (but less than average).  Also the council put a uselessly small hot water tank in a 3 bed maisonette (about 5 years ago) which means no shower possible and it will only fill one bath.  So I am wasting money heating the hot water again if more than one bath a day is needed.

I'd like to put at least one solar panel in my garden (it can be a suntrap) as no roof but from this thread and others it looks like it is quite a complicated process and no doubt I'd have problems with the council if I decided to install a seperate electrical circuit for the solar panel input (you have to get permission for any change to the property besides basic decoration).  

I just wish I had some more options to reduce my bills.  I've always been a bit tight with my electricity useage due to a large bill I received years ago that took ages to pay off (total nightmare, never forgotten it) but there seems to be so little one can do with the increase in tariffs.  I am benefit dependent (autistic household with physical disabilities) so if say I lose my PIP due to a reassessment.., its going to be very very difficult. In fact, it will be impossible to pay all the bills.  

I have just received the £150 council tax refund which I have put straight in my Octopus account.  But still very frustrated that I can do so little to reduce my bills. Had place inspected for draughts, inspector suggested old double glazed windows needed a complete overhaul and front door needed major works - repair man the council sent round said he could do nothing about the windows or door (which you can see light around it fits so badly - apparently something is warped).

I gather the government is going to offer some help for the employed but no mention of help for people like us, not working because of caring/disabilities.

So yes, frustrating situation.

Heedtheadvice

I feel for your stuation. There will be many others similarly positioned and we have a government (irrespective of political party) that does not understand the plight of those in our society who are in the most difficult situation and therefore at the greatest risk. There are those around middle income who will have it tough but not in the same category as options are greater.

My first thought was why you consider a bath more cost effective than a shower. That is rarely the case given the amount of hot water required for a bath compared to a short shower that can even be turned off between wetting and rinsing. So perhaps a small saving there?

Secondly do not accept the council workman's decision. Maybe nothing he could do but the council should do something about your draught issues. Get back on to them and if no joy, as much as I hate to say, if needs be involved your councillors of MP. Make a fuss! It will not cut your immediate bills but should help in the cooler months.

Solar installation by you maybe a non starter. It still costs a fair amount up front for a smalllish longer term benefit. If you can get it installed by someone else paying for it that is another matter!

Do check up that you are getting all the discounts and help available to you such as the warm home discount.....from memory there used to also be special tarriffs, maybe worth checking up with citizens advice or similar?

Rather than 'wasting money' heating your small tank when needed for repeat ablutions it is more efficient as you are only heating water you will use rather than heating a large tank that might be wasted. Do however check that you have loads of insulation round the tank. That will prevent some (small) wastage and the add on type are very chap to buy. Also check that your house has as much insulation as possible. Heating a property uses the greatest amount of power so any saving that can be made has the biggest impact. Ensure nothing is switched on that is not necessary. Those smaller savings will help but it is the continous power use and high power devices that cost most. A slow cooker is a great option and a microwave to heat a drink or two in mugs cheaper than an overfilled kettle unless all the heated water is to be consumed.

Hope others can chip in too as this is far from a unique problem in society. Benfits increases lagging inflation do not help.