Deeds

Houch73

My husband and I had our home as Tenants in Common. He died in January leaving his half to his two children from first marriage. They are Trustees and will inherit after I die, with my children inheriting my half. They both want to go on the Title Deeds of my home replacing their fathers name. I'm not sure this is a good idea and is it really necessary?      Thank You

SeniorSam

NO, that would not be correct and is not how the Will is worded.  That half has to be registered in the name of the Trust and will pass to the children following your death. They are not permitted to have it in their names at this time, as you have the lifetime interest..

RAS

Added to which, as non-resident owners, it would cause huge problems for them later, re loss of first time home owner perks, second home SDLT, and CGT when it was sold. Would cost them a packet.

You have the life interest trust and the other tenant in common is the the Trust/trustees.

doodling

Hi,

I have a different opinion to the above but in practise it makes no difference.

The trustees now own your husband's share and therefore there is nothing wrong with their names being added to the land registry title. That would be completely correct as the registry records legal ownership and they legally own your husband's share. The land registry does not record beneficial ownership, at the moment you effectively have beneficial ownership of the whole house.

(To be absolutely clear, a trust is not a legal person and therefore cannot own things, the assets of a trust are owned by the trustees with whatever document which set up the trust detailing what they can do with them, in this case pretty much nothing until you die).

As others have said, it may cause confusion for the actual names of the trustees to be on the title rather than a reference to the will trust, (probably more to their detriment than yours as others have noted) but that confusion is trivially settled by reference to the will.

Having said the above, given that they are wanting to update the title then it is an identical amount of effort to do either so they might as well do it the less confusing way and indicate that the house is part owned by the "trustees of [husband], deceased".

shiraz99

RAS said:

Added to which, as non-resident owners, it would cause huge problems for them later, re loss of first time home owner perks, second home SDLT, and CGT when it was sold. Would cost them a packet.

You have the lifetime interest and the other tenant in common is the the Trust/trustees.

I would've thought it was life interest trust rather than a lifetime interest which of course are two different things.

RAS

Thanks, edited for clarity

shiraz99

Tbh, I'd be surprised if the OP themselves isn't a named trustee of the life interest.

doodling

Hi,

RAS said:

Added to which, as non-resident owners, it would cause huge problems for them later, re loss of first time home owner perks, second home SDLT, and CGT when it was sold. Would cost them a packet.

As I implied in my previous post, this isn't correct. As the trustees do not have beneficial ownership and there is a specific tax treatment for IPDI trusts then the trustees are not at risk of the above (and if they are then the name on the deeds wont make a difference, other than perhaps to the speed at which HMRC catches up with them).

poppystar

SeniorSam said:

NO, that would not be correct and is not how the Will is worded.  That half has to be registered in the name of the Trust and will pass to the children following your death. They are not permitted to have it in their names at this time, as you have the lifetime interest..

Is this a relatively recent change? Solicitor did precisely this, changing the deeds, after the first death in our case seven years ago. So clearly they were not just permitted but actively encouraging the name change. 

This meant that after the second death the property could be sold without obtaining probate which may have advantages if no other assets are likely to require it.

NorthYorkie

Senior Sam - you said "this is not how the Will is worded". As we haven't been provided with the precise wording of the will, how do you know? I am puzzled.

SeniorSam

NorthYorkie said:

Senior Sam - you said "this is not how the Will is worded". As we haven't been provided with the precise wording of the will, how do you know? I am puzzled.

You shouldn't be puzzled. When someone leaves a property, or part of it to their children, but not until the spouse dies, then the Will would have made that gift part of a Trust. In this instance, although the children want to be added to the Title Deeds, they can not, as that part of the home was gifted in Trust and should be in the name of the Trust with the children (provided they are adults) as Trustees.

Holding the property in Trust means that until the spouse dies, the transfer cannot take place. Bear in mind that during that period of time, one, or both of the children may die and should that happen, the spouse is still protected. If the children's names were on the Deeds before then, complications could arise which is avoided by the correct procedure.

In the case of poppystar, this would seem to be incorrect procedure by the solicitor if the Will is worded in the usual manner, as that part of the property should b held in Trust by the Trustees until the spouse's death

I hope that helps you.