Right to Unpaid Leave - Do I need to get it expressly wrote into my contract?

Jillanddy

Undervalued said:

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

Nonsense.

All kinds of things can for part of a "contract" of employment. It is not simply a sheet of paper with the work "contract" at the top. For virtually all purpose in English law (maybe Guernsey is different - I have no idea) a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one, although obviously far harder to prove.

Quite.

If the employer intends to honour this agreement, then a written agreement by letter or email is as good as it would get in any "written contract" - there obviously not being any such document. Most people confuse the legally required statement of main terms and conditions as being "the contract", but a contract is much more than this, and can include many documents, working practices and implied conditions. That is why there are so many lawyers - if it was as simple as "it's there in black and white" people wouldn't need battalions of lawyers to work out what the contract says.

From the OP's point of view I think that what they have is as good as it gets, but doesn't come without risks. Nobody is entitled to take holiday when the want it. So if the dates aren't convenient, or the employer doesn't want to agree it, the employer can simply be awkward and refuse the dates that the OP asks for. Even with paid holiday. The difference is that paid holiday comes with a right to take it at some time, even though that time may be at a time the employer insists upon. With unpaid leave the employer can't insist that you take it, but then neither can you. Don't confuse the right to take leave with the right to take it when you want to.

mcpitman

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

This is complete twaddle, ignore it.

sultan123

mcpitman said:

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

This is complete twaddle, ignore it.

Not really, random side emails just add layers of ambiguity especially considering it depends on the way they are written.

Contracts are clean and would be primary port of reference. 

sultan123

Undervalued said:

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

Nonsense.

All kinds of things can for part of a "contract" of employment. It is not simply a sheet of paper with the work "contract" at the top. For virtually all purpose in English law (maybe Guernsey is different - I have no idea) a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one, although obviously far harder to prove.

Verbal agreement? Means nothing. 

Undervalued

sultan123 said:

Undervalued said:

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

Nonsense.

All kinds of things can for part of a "contract" of employment. It is not simply a sheet of paper with the work "contract" at the top. For virtually all purpose in English law (maybe Guernsey is different - I have no idea) a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one, although obviously far harder to prove.

Verbal agreement? Means nothing. 

Legally it means just as much as a written agreement.

Marcon

sultan123 said:

mcpitman said:

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

This is complete twaddle, ignore it.

Not really, random side emails just add layers of ambiguity especially considering it depends on the way they are written.

Contracts are clean and would be primary port of reference. 

Show me an employer who issues a new contract for every member of staff each time there's an across the board salary increase...

Of course the content of the side letter or e-mail matters; it describes what is being offered/accepted, so careful wording avoids ambiguity.

Jillanddy

sultan123 said:

mcpitman said:

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

This is complete twaddle, ignore it.

Not really, random side emails just add layers of ambiguity especially considering it depends on the way they are written.

Contracts are clean and would be primary port of reference. 

I have already posted what is legally defined as the contract - which is actually all sorts of stuff. You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. The employment contract is a complex series of things, some written and some not. If "twaddle" is what I think it is, then you are posting twaddle. Contracts are far from "clean" which is why so many end up being disputed. 

lincroft1710

It seems that not only does CI employment law differ from UK employment law, but there are differences between Jersey and Guernsey

Thrugelmir

JosephBrown said:

I therefore worry that this is either either a tactic or if not a tactic now, could end up being a loophole for the employer in future and once I'd relocated to the island and myself and my partner had settled into our jobs, that the company would then decline my request for any additional unpaid leave, brushing it off and saying the company was too busy to lose me for any more time than it had to.

The company is employing you to fulfill a role. Their business , beyond your statutory entitlements to leave, will take precedence over your personal life.  Unsure why you'd think otherwise.  The employer will as far as possible wish to keep employee contracts standardised. Causes no end of problems otherwise. 

Jillanddy

lincroft1710 said:

It seems that not only does CI employment law differ from UK employment law, but there are differences between Jersey and Guernsey

Yes that is true - the OP did point that out. But the basics of employment contract law are the same, it's more to do with what the statement of main terms contains and the differences in basic rights. There's a good synopsis here for anyone who is interested: ff-employment-law-guide-v3 (1).pdf