Right to Unpaid Leave - Do I need to get it expressly wrote into my contract?

JosephBrown

Hi everyone,

I've recently received an offer for a new job. The job is in Guernsey where by law, there is no statutory minumum holiday entitlement.

The job offer does however come with 24 days of paid holiday (incl. 9 bank holidays and 3 xmas shutdown days, leaving enough for just a single 2 week holiday a year).
In person I discussed with the recruiter my desire for the ability to take additional unpaid holiday as my partner gets a really good holiday entitlement with her job and as we're in our 20's and have no children yet, we want to still be able to continue traveling and ticking countries of our bucket lists while we can.
I was previously self-employed and able to take off as much time as I needed, so have never had any restrictions before.

The recruiter and I in person agreed to 10 days additional unpaid leave, however, in his follow up email since our meeting confirming the terms, he now says that while he is "prepared to offer me up to a further 10 days holiday per annum on an unpaid basis" he, "would require this agreement to be outside of the formal contract as this [a provision for additional unpaid leave] is not usually provided and I do not want to set a precedent."

This seems odd to me. I would not go telling people about my contractual right to extra unpaid holiday and thus don't see how a precedent would be set. Other employees would only know about me having extra holidays if they noticed me not being at work and this they'd notice regardless of what is or isn't explicitly wrote into my contract.

I therefore worry that this is either either a tactic or if not a tactic now, could end up being a loophole for the employer in future and once I'd relocated to the island and myself and my partner had settled into our jobs, that the company would then decline my request for any additional unpaid leave, brushing it off and saying the company was too busy to lose me for any more time than it had to.

This is likely as the island has a real labour shortage and cannot replace people easily, so I know it will always be too busy!

If this were to happen, I worry I'll be put in an awkward position where I either have to lump it or threaten to quit the job (which on an island with limited employers would actually mean threatening to relocate back to the UK!) The thought of both options even now are stressing me out.

For those who know more about HR than me (I've only ever been self-employed!) should I be worried about this?
Should I be pushing for this right to additional unpaid leave to be expressly written into my contract, even if it shows my distrust? I am after all making a big personal commitment by selling up and relocating, and surely the least they can do is commit on paper to what we've agreed in person?
Or am I over thinking this and the email I have from the recruiter stating his agreement to the additional days (albeit outside of the formal contract) would be enough proof for me to stand up in future and prove that I do in fact do have a legal right to those unpaid days - agreed via the separate email outside of the standard contract they provide?

Any advice or opinions would be much appreciated.

Thanks everyone.
Joe

74jax

My husband requested unpaid leave (he competes and requires lots of time off for training/competitions) and it was all agreed on an email separate to his contract.

His online booking system has his holidays as usual, but he also has a drop down for 'unpaid' and so he just books it in the usual way. 

For him, his leave is paramount and he would have left if it wasn't possible, but they were super accommodating and he had full details and agreement separate to his contract.  Would this work for you? 

JosephBrown

74jax said:

My husband requested unpaid leave (he competes and requires lots of time off for training/competitions) and it was all agreed on an email separate to his contract.

His online booking system has his holidays as usual, but he also has a drop down for 'unpaid' and so he just books it in the usual way. 

For him, his leave is paramount and he would have left if it wasn't possible, but they were super accommodating and he had full details and agreement separate to his contract.  Would this work for you? 

This sounds fine and legit, but you husband was already working for the company? So a separate email agreement as opposed to a brand new contract would make sense.

In my case, this is a brand new employment offer and thus I'm struggling to see why they wouldn't put a single line in it stating "The employee has the right to an additional optional 2 weeks unpaid leave per annum, booked under the same notice terms as paid holiday." making it clear for everyone from the start.

Marcon

JosephBrown said:

74jax said:

My husband requested unpaid leave (he competes and requires lots of time off for training/competitions) and it was all agreed on an email separate to his contract.

His online booking system has his holidays as usual, but he also has a drop down for 'unpaid' and so he just books it in the usual way. 

For him, his leave is paramount and he would have left if it wasn't possible, but they were super accommodating and he had full details and agreement separate to his contract.  Would this work for you? 

This sounds fine and legit, but you husband was already working for the company? So a separate email agreement as opposed to a brand new contract would make sense.

In my case, this is a brand new employment offer and thus I'm struggling to see why they wouldn't put a single line in it stating "The employee has the right to an additional optional 2 weeks unpaid leave per annum, booked under the same notice terms as paid holiday." making it clear for everyone from the start.

Because

JosephBrown said:

The recruiter and I in person agreed to 10 days additional unpaid leave, however, in his follow up email since our meeting confirming the terms, he now says that while he is "prepared to offer me up to a further 10 days holiday per annum on an unpaid basis" he, "would require this agreement to be outside of the formal contract as this [a provision for additional unpaid leave] is not usually provided and I do not want to set a precedent."

Word gets around. Employees gossip, HR leaks...much safer not to set the precedent in the first place.

JosephBrown said:

For those who know more about HR than me (I've only ever been self-employed!) should I be worried about this?
Should I be pushing for this right to additional unpaid leave to be expressly written into my contract, even if it shows my distrust? I am after all making a big personal commitment by selling up and relocating, and surely the least they can do is commit on paper to what we've agreed in person?
Or am I over thinking this and the email I have from the recruiter stating his agreement to the additional days (albeit outside of the formal contract) would be enough proof for me to stand up in future and prove that I do in fact do have a legal right to those unpaid days - agreed via the separate email outside of the standard contract they provide?

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

400ixl

Many contracts allow you the flexibility to buy or sell holiday days subject to management approval. This usually has an upper and lower limit.

I doubt they would put a cast iron guarantee in your main contract of 2 weeks.

JosephBrown

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

400ixl

I doubt you will get any more commitment than discretionary. You will need to make a judgement call on whether that is enough for you if that does turn out to be the case.

sultan123

If it is not in the contract you will not have leg to stand on.

I agree with you that it should be in there as agreed. I think it is silly they are talking about setting a precedent, people have to have to skill to negotiate.

sultan123

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

Marcon

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

Side letters and e-mails can also be binding, depending on how they are worded.

Undervalued

sultan123 said:

JosephBrown said:

You can try pushing, but you aren't likely to get anywhere. They have said they will commit - but from the sound of it, by means of a side letter (or e-mail), rather than your contract. 

Thanks for this. So you'd recommend I just ask for it myself to be confirmed in a side-letter/email rather than pushing for it be in the contract? Do you know if this would then have the same legal standing?

Thanks,

If it is not in contract, no legality. At the end of the day contract is legally binding.

Nonsense.

All kinds of things can for part of a "contract" of employment. It is not simply a sheet of paper with the work "contract" at the top. For virtually all purpose in English law (maybe Guernsey is different - I have no idea) a verbal agreement is just as binding as a written one, although obviously far harder to prove.