Why in UK the DD amount is constant figure?

pochase

agentcain said:

pochase said:

The high standing charge is not an insurance to protect customer credits, it is to pay back the costs of those credits for the suppliers that went bust already last year, along with other SOLR costs.

So  your idea will not reduce the standing charge by a single penny.

What? I didn't talk of insurances.
If these sums were deposited on protected accounts and not with the companies own accounts, no credit would be lost so no cost would incur. 

Your post said

I don't see the argument of "raising standing charges to protect credits" holding water then, as it never should.

Raising standing charges to protect implies that it is done before it is necessary.

Standing charges have been raised in arears so the credits could be paid back. So it is not just an argument, the standing charges needed to be raised, otherwise millions would have lost their credit. 

QrizB

Section62 said:

agentcain said:

If these sums were deposited on protected accounts and not with the companies own accounts, no credit would be lost so no cost would incur. 

There would need to be entities put in place to hold these sums, and auditing of the arrangements, and additional transaction costs moving money between the different accounts.

So there would be a non-zero cost attached to the idea of ringfencing customer credit.

Plus there are the SoLR costs unrelated to customer credits, whereby suppliers have to purchase additional unhedged energy to supply an unplanned influx of customers.

Back in December day-ahead gas was briefly 15p/kWh, and the suppliers had to sell that on at 4p/kWh.

SwanJon

VMDD relies on monthly accurate readings - something the industry wasn't able to support pre-Smart metering. Without a monthly read, the supplier will estimate usage, and any discrepancy will be picked up on the next actual read. While this estimate will have some seasonality, it wouldn't recognise any change in behaviour/usage and so remove one of the benefits of VMDD.

More regular accurate readings will also improve the accuracy of FMDD as a better and more personal seasonal picture will emerge.

This forum has long said that regular readings are the core to solving many energy billing issues, and I don't think that has changed.

Gerry1

SwanJon said:

VMDD relies on monthly accurate readings - something the industry wasn't able to support pre-Smart metering.

I doubt whether a meter reader called ever monthly, although back in the days of the Gas and Electricity Boards they called quarterly; customers were never expected to read a meter (unless they were out and the meter reader left a postcard).

However, VMDD was available long before smart metering. I've had it for decades, whenever my supplier offered it.  I also have it today for both fuels and I don't have smart meters.

SwanJon

Gerry1 said:

However, VMDD was available long before smart metering. I've had it for decades, whenever my supplier offered it.  I also have it today for both fuels and I don't have smart meters.

Yes - but it relies on you providing an accurate reading each month. I was aware of VQDD (Quarterly) which I suspect was a nightmare, but didn't realise VMDD went back that far.

They type of customer who is willing and able to provide monthly readings is the type of customer able to seek out the payment method/frequency that suits them.
For a customer unable to provide regular readings VMDD would provide little benefit over FMDD, but still have the extra effort required to manage the changing amounts.

Chrysalis

Thrugelmir said:

Chrysalis said:

Thrugelmir said:

Octopus's own data totally disagrees somewhat with MSE's straw poll of users. Always best to obtain hard facts before standing on a soap box and shouting. 

What is Octopus's own data, for reference I should point out a majority of the reports I seen with excessive DD's before April were Octopus customers.

Are you accusing Octopus of lying ?  

Not at the moment, but I am waiting for you to supply something behind the words of "octopus data".

I asked you what their data is and your response was to ask if I think they lying, are you able to answer the question?

Chrysalis

SwanJon said:

VMDD relies on monthly accurate readings - something the industry wasn't able to support pre-Smart metering. Without a monthly read, the supplier will estimate usage, and any discrepancy will be picked up on the next actual read. While this estimate will have some seasonality, it wouldn't recognise any change in behaviour/usage and so remove one of the benefits of VMDD.

More regular accurate readings will also improve the accuracy of FMDD as a better and more personal seasonal picture will emerge.

This forum has long said that regular readings are the core to solving many energy billing issues, and I don't think that has changed.

It doesnt require actual readings, it can work based on estimates.  But obviously actual readings are preferred as is the case with fixed DD.

Mstty

Talked to a few neighbours this week and family all are happy with FMDD and not interested in setting up a separate pot to put their expected energy usage in to then pay large variable bills over winter.

Maybe we are all conditioned to accept this as the norm. But the norm it is.

I guess this will be called an excuse of an opinion.

Ultrasonic

Chrysalis said:

SwanJon said:

VMDD relies on monthly accurate readings - something the industry wasn't able to support pre-Smart metering. Without a monthly read, the supplier will estimate usage, and any discrepancy will be picked up on the next actual read. While this estimate will have some seasonality, it wouldn't recognise any change in behaviour/usage and so remove one of the benefits of VMDD.

More regular accurate readings will also improve the accuracy of FMDD as a better and more personal seasonal picture will emerge.

This forum has long said that regular readings are the core to solving many energy billing issues, and I don't think that has changed.

It doesnt require actual readings, it can work based on estimates.  But obviously actual readings are preferred as is the case with fixed DD.

Are you expecting companies to come up with different estimates for every month of the year?

VMDD needs monthly readings as far as I can see, which is of course perfectly doable with smart meters. 

agentcain

Section62 said:

agentcain said:

If these sums were deposited on protected accounts and not with the companies own accounts, no credit would be lost so no cost would incur. 

There would need to be entities put in place to hold these sums, and auditing of the arrangements, and additional transaction costs moving money between the different accounts.

So there would be a non-zero cost attached to the idea of ringfencing customer credit.

I'm pretty certain that cost would be much, much less than what we're facing now. 
And its not just the power of hindsight. Most of what you're talking about can happen automatically, with a system in place that would cost way less than the useless track-n-trace for covid.