Leak in to downstairs flat

jimmymcnulty

I have bought a flat, with slowly quite a few issues arising. 

The latest is a central heating pipe (buried under concrete) had leaked and made a stain on the downstairs ceiling. 

I have fixed the central heating, I was happy to pay £150 for a paint job on the guys ceiling. 

He is clai8ming 'other damage' and wants the entire flat painted at £800, which I am not doing. 

He refuses to give me photos until I accept full liability for the work that needs doing, so I am unable to claim it from insurance as I have no photos. 

I think he is blackmailing and bullying me. 

jimmymcnulty

hi, anybody know the extent of my laibility. the leak has come from under floorboards,  would the monthly service charge not be used for that?

outtatune

Your service charge is to cover maintenance of common areas and the like. It's not a personal savings account.

Your lease will make it clear what you are responsible for. Unless it's a building wide heating system you'll definitely be liable; even for a building wide system you may still be liable for the parts that go through your flat.

If he won't give you photos it sounds like he has you down as a mug and is trying it on.

another_casualty

Have you got legal protection on your contents insurance ? 

( where is @Bendy_House?😼) 
If so, call them for advice . 

The guy below sounds like a chancer , and hopefully you haven't paid anything.
Did you tell insurers that you have been refused photos? 

May be worth asking managing agents their take on things. Is the guy below a leaseholder or tenant? 

Bendy_House

jimmymcnulty said:

hi, anybody know the extent of my laibility. the leak has come from under floorboards,  would the monthly service charge not be used for that?

Have you paid him the £150 yet? If 'no', then great - don't!

That's what the communal buildings insurance is for.

The leak from this hidden pipe was completely unanticipated by you, wasn't caused by your negligence, and you therefore carry no responsibility for it whatsoever. To repair the leak is most likely the responsibility of the LL using the communal building's insurance, as it's part of the fabric/fixtures/fittings and is not 'contents' - do check. To fix the cosmetic damage to the flat below is also almost certainly done by the same insurance cover.

As I understand it, since you were not to blame for the leak, you are not liable for the damage.

Get out your copy of communal building's insurance policy that you contribute to, and your own personal contents insurance policy. Either have a good read, or call them up.

When you think about it, 'buildings' insurance is compulsory, and all the leaseholders contribute to it - it's the responsibility of the LL to arrange, and the premium is usually included in the communal service charge. That just leaves 'contents' insurance, which is the responsibility of each flat owner, and is not compulsory; if you don't want that cover, that's up to you.

Are the walls of this charmer's flat 'contents'? Is the paint? No, that's all buildings, so is part of the buildings insurance claim.

Had your leak damaged his actual 'contents' - ie furniture, carpets, pictures, etc, then guess what - HE'D have to claim off HIS contents insurance. And, if he didn't have any, then he'd be stuffed.

If you have paid the £150, and you have fixed the leak, then it's up to you if you want to leave it at that and not ask the LL to make a claim. You've done them a favour, tho'.

I'm pretty sure that's all correct... Do you have LP on your contents insurance? If so, call them up for advice on this. You can probably even just call up your insurance co and ask them.

eddddy

jimmymcnulty said:

The latest is a central heating pipe (buried under concrete) had leaked and made a stain on the downstairs ceiling. 

Liability for the damage to the flat downstairs
You only have liability for the damaged paintwork downstairs if you were negligent. It doesn't sound like you've been negligent so you don't have to pay anything - not even £150. (Unless there are any important facts which you haven't mentioned.) 

So your neighbour is responsible for repairs to paintwork in his own flat.


Responsibility for repairing the leaking pipe
Your lease will tell you if you are responsible for repairing the leaking pipe. If it's a pipe for the central heating in your flat, the lease probably says you are responsible for repairing the pipe.


Buildings Insurance claim by your neighbour
Your neighbour's lease (and your lease) will tell them who is responsible for buildings insurance - it's usually the freeholder. The buildings insurance probably has cover for damage caused by escape of water. So your neighbour can contact the freeholder, if they want to make a buildings insurance claim.

But there is usually a high excess for this type of claim - often £1000 or maybe more. So it's probably not economic to make a claim. Depending on the wording of the lease, the excess usually has to be paid by the neighbour or from service charge funds.

jimmymcnulty

Thanks for all, essentially the heating pipe under concrete in my living room has been repaired (they re routed it). I wasn't quite sure where I stood and thought I couldn't claim on my insurance. 

Downstairs now asking for a significant sum of money but refusing to give me photos (i live 250 miles away)  unless I accept liability. He is asking for the full £800 and I am receiving quite a few nasty bullying emails. 

Bendy_House

You should tell him to cease and desist, and to look up the correct way in which to address such matters. Then ignore him. (Unless he gets a solicitor's letter sent, in which case you need to respond correctly so you don't lose by default.)

Did you give him that other £150?

You rent out your flat? You should familiarise yourself with these sorts of things so you know how to respond in future.

I don't know if YOUR insurance would have covered the actual leak, but I suspect the communal building's cover would have.

eddddy

jimmymcnulty said:

Thanks for all, essentially the heating pipe under concrete in my living room has been repaired (they re routed it). I wasn't quite sure where I stood and thought I couldn't claim on my insurance. 

Downstairs now asking for a significant sum of money but refusing to give me photos (i live 250 miles away)  unless I accept liability. He is asking for the full £800 and I am receiving quite a few nasty bullying emails. 

So your neighbour is asking you to pay money you don't owe.

I guess you can try saying "I don't owe you any money" or you could try ignoring them.


Forget about the photos - they're irrelevant.

It's up to the neighbour to make an insurance claim if they want to - you don't make the claim.

jimmymcnulty

Guys thanks - sorry its been taken a while to come back. spoken with solicitor, who actually said settling £800 cheaper than court action.   Not doing that, offered £150 good will gesture, they are trying it on. The initial leak from my heating and that is more than enough.  Said I can only have photos if I admit liability. A leak specialist has stated they are almost certainly external leaks, drains etc to the rest ceiling. . 


TBH, I move back into the flat early next year, not sure I can be bothered with rental hassle. 
I think you right re communal insurance. 

Bendy_House

Solicitors, eh? Why would you have them - that fellow needs a good kicking. £800 is a good move, ma botty.

If you haven't actually handed over the £150, then please do the right thing and withdraw the offer - the flat owner needs to learn the cost of greed and false claim. So make sure you inform them why.

The key word in all this is 'liability'. Are you liable for these leaks? Were you negligent? Did you suspect an issue and do nothing about it? Did you carry out a DIY repair that went wrong? Did you sit there watching water come out a pipe and do now't about it?

Or, was it just a plumbing leak that no-one could have anticipated?

As for the recent 'external' leaks, saints preserve us.