No defence, not sure what route to take

Jenni_D

Beebee88 said:

Jenni_D said:

The contractual agreement will be between the landowner (or their agent, the Managing Agent/Company) and the PPC. You won't get to see that unless a PCN ever went as far as a court claim. Let's understand what the lease/TA says first.

So you got a/several NTKs - Notices to Keeper. What were the alleged contraventions? How were the contraventions recorded? ANPR cameras? Observations by a person? (Which begs the question - why didn't they put a PCN on the vehicle windscreen?)

Much thanks Jenni D, understood. And as i understand it i can contact the parking enforcement company requesting to see the contractual agreement between them and the landowner as i understand it. If so, when would that be a good idea to do so?

The contravention is the the driver of vehicle breached the terms of the stipulated signage, thus the keeper/driver is responsible. So in a way they are assuming it was me.

That's too vague ... how did the driver allegedly breach the T&Cs? Didn't display a permit? Stayed too long? Returned sooner than allowed? Something else?

They're not assuming it was you - they're alleging that the registered keeper is liable, because Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 allows them to do so (provided that they meet certain legal obligations - which is uncommon for parking companies).

Half_way

If the so called terms are not valid in the first place then you have a very good defence: that is its a residential space and you are the owner of that space ( own space) or have permission from the owner to park there.

 In most cases a third party ( ie parking company)  can not take away a pre existing right by sticking up some signs and positing out permits .

 And extending that logic - if you have the right to use a space then you would only be displaying a permit as a courtesy as why would you agree to pay a stranger £100/whatever for the use of your property any more than you would be happy to pay £100 for the use of your lavatory after 10pm?

Beebee88

Umkomaas said:

And as i understand it i can contact the parking enforcement company requesting to see the contractual agreement between them and the landowner as i understand it.

Do you have an active court case against you?  If so you aver in your Defence that the PPC does not have a contract with the landowner. It's at that stage the PPC will have to prove they do in their Witness Statement which may be months away.

Trying to get it before then will just be wasting your time.  

What are you hoping to achieve in having a copy of it?

Yes, i have an active court case against me, the defence needs to be in tomorrow. Just a pain in the !!!!!!, as i work full time and im a student nurse so ive left it late.

very much appreciate your points and will take heed. Thanks alot 

Beebee88

Jenni_D said:

Beebee88 said:

Jenni_D said:

The contractual agreement will be between the landowner (or their agent, the Managing Agent/Company) and the PPC. You won't get to see that unless a PCN ever went as far as a court claim. Let's understand what the lease/TA says first.

So you got a/several NTKs - Notices to Keeper. What were the alleged contraventions? How were the contraventions recorded? ANPR cameras? Observations by a person? (Which begs the question - why didn't they put a PCN on the vehicle windscreen?)

Much thanks Jenni D, understood. And as i understand it i can contact the parking enforcement company requesting to see the contractual agreement between them and the landowner as i understand it. If so, when would that be a good idea to do so?

The contravention is the the driver of vehicle breached the terms of the stipulated signage, thus the keeper/driver is responsible. So in a way they are assuming it was me.

That's too vague ... how did the driver allegedly breach the T&Cs? Didn't display a permit? Stayed too long? Returned sooner than allowed? Something else?

They're not assuming it was you - they're alleging that the registered keeper is liable, because Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 allows them to do so (provided that they meet certain legal obligations - which is uncommon for parking companies).

I guess it would be written how i breached the terms on the sign. I'm going to have a look at it, i see where your going with that. 

So with that said should the protections of freedoms act, to test whether they can meet those obligations?

yet again thanks

Beebee88

Half_way said:

If the so called terms are not valid in the first place then you have a very good defence: that is its a residential space and you are the owner of that space ( own space) or have permission from the owner to park there.

 In most cases a third party ( ie parking company)  can not take away a pre existing right by sticking up some signs and positing out permits .

 And extending that logic - if you have the right to use a space then you would only be displaying a permit as a courtesy as why would you agree to pay a stranger £100/whatever for the use of your property any more than you would be happy to pay £100 for the use of your lavatory after 10pm?

Its actually an office space. Theres no parking where i live, its a complete nightmare. I used to park there 3 to 4 years ago, and they're just bringing all of this up now

KeithP

Beebee88 said:

Umkomaas said:

And as i understand it i can contact the parking enforcement company requesting to see the contractual agreement between them and the landowner as i understand it.

Do you have an active court case against you?  If so you aver in your Defence that the PPC does not have a contract with the landowner. It's at that stage the PPC will have to prove they do in their Witness Statement which may be months away.

Trying to get it before then will just be wasting your time.  

What are you hoping to achieve in having a copy of it?

Yes, i have an active court case against me, the defence needs to be in tomorrow.

Are you sure about that?
Lots of people struggle to work out their Defence filing deadline.

That's the first time on this thread you have told us about an active Claim.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Have you filed an Acknowledgment of Service?
If so, upon what date did you do so?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Hopefully you have a little more time than you think.

Beebee88

KeithP said:

Beebee88 said:

Umkomaas said:

And as i understand it i can contact the parking enforcement company requesting to see the contractual agreement between them and the landowner as i understand it.

Do you have an active court case against you?  If so you aver in your Defence that the PPC does not have a contract with the landowner. It's at that stage the PPC will have to prove they do in their Witness Statement which may be months away.

Trying to get it before then will just be wasting your time.  

What are you hoping to achieve in having a copy of it?

Yes, i have an active court case against me, the defence needs to be in tomorrow.

Are you sure about that?
Lots of people struggle to work out their Defence filing deadline.

That's the first time on this thread you have told us about an active Claim.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Have you filed an Acknowledgment of Service?
If so, upon what date did you do so?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Hopefully you have a little more time than you think.

Hi Keith, the issue date was 8th April, so 5 days after that counting 28 days makes it tomorrow, to my calculations. I've already handing in the acknowledgement of service form via email, i struggle to log into the MCOL siteunless i'm missing something i think its tomorrow mate.

KeithP

Yes, you are right about your Defence filing deadline - 4pm tomorrow.

That does assume that you filed your Acknowledgment of Service sometime after 12th April and before 28th April.

Beebee88

Forgive me for being a little annoying....

This is a photo of the signage, i hope that would give a wee bit of context, as i'm at a bit of a loss as to which route i should take in terms of defense?

Every little bit helps

Thanks

Coupon-mad

 i'm at a bit of a loss as to which route i should take in terms of defense?

With less than a day to do it?  You haven't seen the Template Defence thread yet, top of the forum?