APCOA Parking ANPR pcn

devonlad

Hello all and its been a while since i have been on the forums.

Hospital has had a flurry of pcns since the apnr was introduced.

I cant find the blue template appeal in the newbies forum but still looking.

i did find this template so cut and paste etc.

ticket issued 12th apr date of notice 2nd may.

first picture even when magnified there is no sign of a blue car or a plate. its just a black image with different car further along. they have imposed the plate on the bottom of the pics which i have covered over.

it says car park I,J and K but which one?

the bit i am muddled on is the 14 days notice count on apnr postal notices

below is my initial appeal to the PPC


I dispute your parking charge as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint to your client landowner.
I am unable to disclose who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, please provide an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the parked vehicle. If you are relying on POFA - As your Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) para 9(2)(f), no liability can be placed on me - the vehicle's registered keeper. I am under no obligation to identify the driver, and will not be doing so. Your notification also fails to comply with (Schedule 4) para9(5) as it falls outside of the relevant period. Please write to confirm cancellation of this charge, however, should you fail to do so, I will be recording complaints about your conduct with the DVLA, the BPA and my local Member of Parliament. You haven't specified which car park, I, J or K?. image one is blank and image two shows a moving car through hospital grounds. If you still wish to proceed to POPLA, please provide a code as I will have to submit a robust appeal not limited to points set out in this letter. 


now my thoughts are that first picture is black and taken at night in one of three car parks even zoomed in i can not make out any car. the 2nd pic of car shows it moving along not parked. this alone would be my popla winning moment hopefully.


it seems that many people have had these at work now with the same message but not identifying which car park and i am hoping to set up a generic template for other hospital staff.

night shifts 
regards

Coupon-mad

Here's a generic template you can adapt for first appeals, might not be quite the same but it worked for me:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79122888#Comment_79122888

If you are at POPLA stage you just need to expand on all the points covered there.  Except this site might not be a station so the byelaws bit may not apply?

Forget the 14 days...don't let the victims fixate on dates...I wish more newbies could spot that APCOA NTKs are non-POFA (it is simple to see that the wording isn't POFA compliant and the NEWBIES thread links to schedule 4 to show it).  It really is just 'spot the difference' and not a difficult or overly 'legal' task.

CLUE: Look in your NTK for the words needed under Schedule 4 of POFA, para 9(2)f.

devonlad

Hi coupon, it's just the first stage at present. 
So not to bother about the 14 day thing. Just dealing with another case and will look at the template 
Thanks

devonlad

so here is the modified appeal to apcoa website before going to popla

I am the registered keeper and your Penalty Charge cites a date several weeks ago, a time when I was not the driver.   The driver will not be named.

Further, the car is not visible in the first picture with no identifying landmarks and nor the features of the car. Have zoomed in very closely on the pic and cant identify a car.

 There is no evidence that the vehicle:

- was stationary (your photos show what looks like a moving car in 'Lane 1' then 'Lane 2' wherever this may be);

- exceeded a reasonable consideration period, which in the BPA Code of Practice is a 5 minute minimum (longer needed in darkness);

- passed repeater signs with full t&cs affording a fair opportunity for a driver to read it all in darkness while moving;

- passed a prominent, lit sign warning of ANPR nor its purpose (ref: ICO Surveillance Camera Code - cannot be carried out covertly).

I require all your evidence and a full response to all of appeal points, including a photo on a prominent sign in situ (image must be recent and taken in darkness without a torch) and a map of where that sign is and where the car was, in relation to it.

The driver was not me and they will not be named.  This matters because you have not used the wording in the POFA 2012.  Keeper liability is denied so there is no owner liability either.

The new DLUHC Code of Practice, published on 7th February 2022 to replace the self-serving BPA Code, says  "it is important that parking operators do not confuse the enforcement of byelaws with the contractual application of parking charges" yet the back of your notice mentions 'debt enforcement partners'.

Which is it then, a 'debt' or a penalty?  This is a clear attempt to confuse and mislead the recipient about remedies available under byelaws.  This can never be a contractual 'debt' for you to pass to third parties and neither you nor your agents can lawfully add sums to the parking charge, because the DLUHC has banned debt recovery 'fees'.

You must not pass my data to any third party except POPLA, if used.  Given APCOA can't win at POPLA,  I suggest you cancel this charge forthwith.

the bit i am unsure about is tin the last sentence  Given APCOA can't win at POPLA,  I suggest you cancel this charge forthwith.

seems a bit cocky?

think that it is ok to send and will send it shortly and keep the thread updated

again thanks

 

devonlad

oh added no evidence that car parked  in one of the three car parks I,J or K . which one was it in.

its so frustrating for hospital night staff as no park and ride at night and empty car parks

Castle

Night shift staff are now entitled to free parking;-
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

devonlad

Castle said:

Night shift staff are now entitled to free parkinthatsbg;-
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Staff working night shifts

Staff working night shifts are members of staff with a shift starting after 7.30pm and ending before 8.00am. They receive free parking for the duration of shift.

That's the problem most shifts finish at or in itu case 0830. My alleged ticket was from 1955 to 0840. I finish myself at 0800 but by the time you handover, get changed walk to car it's 0830;

My mate lives on  sight and he has had 5 tickets now which he not overly panicked by. We used to get resident permits but changed to a travel pass where anyone of 9000 staff can apply for 700 spaces. I for one can't see issue of night staff parking as the parks are empty and there is no park and ride after 9pm

As with most hospitals it's the biggest complaint and apcoa jumped on the cash cow. 

Fruitcake

It's a parking charge notice, not a penalty.

Include the 14 day failure to comply with the PoFA as one of your points. What C-m meant was not to concentrate only on the 14 day period because many posters see the NTK arrive before then, and assume it is PoFA compliant. APCOA NTKs are never PoFA compliant, so even if it had arrived within 14 days, the keeper could still not be held liable.

The comment about PoPLA is that because all APCOA PCNs are non-PoFA compliant, they will always lose at PoPLA as long as the driver isn't identified.

What is the hospital HR/Admin/Head Honcho/Trust CEO doing about this?
If you are a union member, your reps should be all over this like a rash.

Complain to your MP and the Secretary of State for Health. The NHS is having enough trouble hiring and retaining staff. They can't afford to lose more because every work day comes with a £100 charge.

Tell all your friends and colleagues not to pay these charges, but to appeal every time. Put up flyers on lockers or notice boards, or even on cars. Spread the word, tell people about this forum.

Coupon-mad

Yep I didn't say the14 days doesn't matter at all, that isn't the case.  I tell people not to obsess over dates (ONLY)  to wonder whether a PCN is non-POFA, when it obviously is a non-POFA one on wording, anyway!

Unlike the Brighton Station template appeal I showed you, your one is not a 'penalty charge' and I doubt it captions the images as 'Lane 1' & 'Lane 2'?

If you were the driver don't copy a line that says you were not, because that would be lying. Of course on their website appeals page you must NOT choose the option that says 'I was the driver' (no need to say that and important you don't).

devonlad

I sent it as above and shall await. 

devonlad

Hi coupon. they dropped the ticket at the first appeal no popla code. many thanks