Tenant called locksmith on bank holiday

rahrah21

JuanBallOfWimbledon said:

Probably would have been better to put all the info into the OP. It’s impossible for people to properly advise if they’re dealing with a post where initially it’s not an emergency because it’s in a safe cul-de-sac, then because there’s a bolt, then because there’s 2 bolts, then because the tenant has form for calling out emergency tradespeople, then because the tenant was happy it wasn’t an emergency but changed their tune when asked how it happened. 

However, if all of the above is true and accurate, the letter @canaldumidi suggested above sounds fair. 

To be fair, this is my first post so hadn't really thought about all the questions it would raise, but i shall do in future. 

GDB2222

rahrah21 said:

JuanBallOfWimbledon said:

Probably would have been better to put all the info into the OP. It’s impossible for people to properly advise if they’re dealing with a post where initially it’s not an emergency because it’s in a safe cul-de-sac, then because there’s a bolt, then because there’s 2 bolts, then because the tenant has form for calling out emergency tradespeople, then because the tenant was happy it wasn’t an emergency but changed their tune when asked how it happened. 

However, if all of the above is true and accurate, the letter @canaldumidi suggested above sounds fair. 

To be fair, this is my first post so hadn't really thought about all the questions it would raise, but i shall do in future. 

At least, you've had a fair number of opinions. Enough to help you make up your mind what to do.

You'll never get a consensus here about something like this, I'm afraid.

[Deleted User]

One thing that you have learned, assuming the tenant is in the wrong, is that this is not a tenant to keep. S21 or S8 when you can. 

Some cant change a lightbulb, some are needy, some want you to wipe their behind. Don't tolerate it.

74jax

GDB2222 said:

74jax said:

As someone who has had a secure upvc door with really good locks and bolts broken by someone to gain entry, I'd have been really uneasy staying there. The alternative of a hotel isn't much use as it would mean I felt safe, but I'd know my belongings were not (although appreciate the LL thinks so).

I'm also a LL and no way would consider this not an emergency. Also a parent and wouldnt be happy if this happened to my DD. 

That makes no sense. You've just said that really good locks don't help!

Sadly in my case no. I was, for a very long time, under red alert with 999, and my locks etc were all OK and police checked. I felt 'suitably' secure. However if someone wants in, they get in. Thankfully mine was broken into whilst I was placed in a secure house and so I wasn't actually at home.
It took a long LONG time to be able to relax again with the usual locks and bolts. But I do 100% know I could in no way stay in my house with no locks. Even though it's 15+ years on and I have a husband now. 
It might not make sense, but it's just my feelings on it. 

rahrah21

gingercordial said:

GDB2222 said:

tooldle said:

rahrah21 said:

Tranboy said:

But do you know for certain that is all it was?

the bulk of the charge is because the company was out of the area so most of it is call out charges. the barrel change was approx £40. hence my concern why T chose to go out of the area, and not even by a short distance. 70 miles or so. 

Maybe this was the closest available locksmith? We've only tried to get a locksmith out once. Our situation was 6.30pm on a weekday. We tried all the local companies without success. In our city the locksmiths tend to be one man businesses and if as happened with us, the locksmiths concerned are doing something else (in the pub watching our national side play in the Euros) options are limited.

You don’t need a locksmith. Any handyman can do that job in five minutes. Anyone with a screwdriver can do it. Undo one screw. Take the old lock barrel out. Put the new one in. Do the screw up.  The lock barrel costs a few £££.

£426 for that job is just plain ridiculous. 

It’s an uneasy relationship between LL and T, but it’s best to try to get on. An incident like this makes both parties unhappy, so it’s best if the T leaves and finds somewhere else to live.

Perhaps I have missed it in all the OP's additional posts, but was the lock stuck open or closed?  I agree I could turn to YouTube for how to change a lock on an open door, but I wouldn't try my hand at picking or drilling one stuck closed and so in that case an expensive call out would be needed and then they have you over a barrel, no pun intended.  (We actually do have a set of lock picks as my husband at one point decided to take it up as a hobby, but he never got any good at it!)

As per the original post, the UPVC front door wouldn't lock. The door would open and close but the key wouldnt turn in the lock to lock the door mechanism. 

rahrah21

tooldle said:

I don’t think the OP said one way or another, nor has he/she commented on the availability of tools for either party, whether or not either have the skills or the parts, or indeed anyway of getting the parts. Regardless, it is not the tenants responsibility to perform repairs. The OP did say he/she would be calling a locksmith. 

As per the original post, the UPVC front door wouldn't lock. The door would open and close but the key wouldnt turn in the lock to lock the door mechanism. 

Hannimal

saajan_12 said:

Hannimal said:

sidneyvic said:

I bet you if Tennant owned the house and would have had to foot the bill, they would have waited until after the bank holiday.
Tell them to do one.

But they don't and they pay rent to cover costs like these, so it doesn't really matter what they'd do if they owned the property. 

As a property owner myself I would probably not wait as an unlocked door would deem my house insurance void and it's not a risk worth taking. 

It absolutely is relevant what they'd do as an owner occupier - if its the same person feeling the pain of the cost vs the inconvenience of waiting for the fix, then they can make a balanced decision. In theory, if an average owner occupier wouldn't pay up for a same day fix, then the implication is that its reasonable to wait a day. 

That doesn't mean that the tenant actually pays for the next day fix if that's the reasonable timeframe (assuming they're not at fault). Their rent would cover the cost of the next day fix. However if they want something sooner, then they can pay up for the difference. 

No, it really isn't. As a tenant you are paying for the whole package. As an owner you boot the cost of repairs when it comes to it. So for example if my shower breaks and I decide I can put up with it for a few months and shower at work and the gym while I wait, then that's a decision I make for myself. But if I am renting i am paying for a door that locks and a shower that works, and my landlord can't make the choice for me that I'd have to l ive somewhere unsafe or somewhere without a shower. 

If the tenant felt unsafe with a broken lock, as I would, then they're absolutely within their rights to demand it be fixed asap. I totally get it's a pain to boot that bill but at £400-or-so it's hardly life-changing and it's a part and parcel of being a landlord. If the LL wishes to not provide a safe habitat to their tenants, then they should reconsider being a LL. 

Hannimal

canaldumidi said:

Letter politely explaining

* not an emergency as door could be secured overnight with bolts, and alternative exit/entry available

* LL had offered repair in reasonable timescale - next working day

* LL had explicitly not authorised emergency repair - tenant made unilateral decision so is responsible for related costs

* tenant has not established if repair was necesitated due to wear and tear, or tenant damage

* even if it had been an emergency, unreasonable to employ a locksmith 70 miles away

Consequently LL rejects T's request for reimbursement..

If T accepts this, all well and good lessons learned all round.

If T disputes this, and continues to claim money and/or deducts from rent, S21 Notice followed by deposit dispute when tenancy (eventually) ends.

Good luck issuing a valid S21 following a dispute over who is responsible for a lock repair. Very easy for the tenant to challenge this. 

It is also TERRIBLE advice to ask the landlord to evict someone as a revenge because they wanted to have secure doors. I am assuming that even though the OP (understandly) is upset about the high cost of the repair, they are not a terrible person and so would not do this. 

rahrah21

Hannimal said:

saajan_12 said:

Hannimal said:

sidneyvic said:

I bet you if Tennant owned the house and would have had to foot the bill, they would have waited until after the bank holiday.
Tell them to do one.

But they don't and they pay rent to cover costs like these, so it doesn't really matter what they'd do if they owned the property. 

As a property owner myself I would probably not wait as an unlocked door would deem my house insurance void and it's not a risk worth taking. 

It absolutely is relevant what they'd do as an owner occupier - if its the same person feeling the pain of the cost vs the inconvenience of waiting for the fix, then they can make a balanced decision. In theory, if an average owner occupier wouldn't pay up for a same day fix, then the implication is that its reasonable to wait a day. 

That doesn't mean that the tenant actually pays for the next day fix if that's the reasonable timeframe (assuming they're not at fault). Their rent would cover the cost of the next day fix. However if they want something sooner, then they can pay up for the difference. 

No, it really isn't. As a tenant you are paying for the whole package. As an owner you boot the cost of repairs when it comes to it. So for example if my shower breaks and I decide I can put up with it for a few months and shower at work and the gym while I wait, then that's a decision I make for myself. But if I am renting i am paying for a door that locks and a shower that works, and my landlord can't make the choice for me that I'd have to l ive somewhere unsafe or somewhere without a shower. 

If the tenant felt unsafe with a broken lock, as I would, then they're absolutely within their rights to demand it be fixed asap. I totally get it's a pain to boot that bill but at £400-or-so it's hardly life-changing and it's a part and parcel of being a landlord. If the LL wishes to not provide a safe habitat to their tenants, then they should reconsider being a LL. 

Not a case of not wanting to provide a safe habitat, but I would consider double bolts as safe for a temporary period of potentially no more than one night. I think the comment of reconsidering being an LL given how some LL's treat their properties and tenants is unfair. 

[Deleted User]

In another topic you dont know about holding deposits. Now you are contradicting well respected posters about repair protocols. From novice to expert in the space of a few posts.