Tenant called locksmith on bank holiday

cymruchris

rahrah21 said:

cymruchris said:

Still with the tenant on this - a couple of sliding bolts on the back of a door isn't as secure as a proper lock. If they'd gone out, and then been burgled, would you have stumped up the cost of their replacement possessions? Would the insurance have paid out when you told them the front door didn't have a functioning insurance standard lock? There are some things that can hang fire and be repaired later, but a front door primary lock shouldn't' be one of them. Yes it was bad luck that timing was as it was - but that's how it goes in life, you can't pick and choose when things fail, otherwise we'd all be arranging to have our locks changed four weeks on Thursday at 2pm when the locksmith over the road that only charges £20 was available. As I mentioned earlier - if you'd engaged - and dealt with it on the spot, you might have saved yourself some money. You told the tenant that you didn't class it as an emergency, and so they did what they needed to do to ensure the property was PROPERLY secure. 

Not entirely correct. There was quite a discussion, and initially T messaged to say they weren't sure whether to call someone out. Even T at first didn't think it an emergency, but when we asked how this had happened suddenly the tone changed and it became an emergency. We did engage as much as we could, but then the T got very abusive so we did wonder if there had been an issue such as the key snapping in the lock or damage. The T has previously called emergency plumber for a cracked bath plug which are 75p. I just wasn't sure on this one, as we still don't know if the T caused damage as by going to an out of the area locksmith it seemed a bit off. There are loads of local firms. 

Based on your previous experience of the tenant - I would definitely have arranged my own locksmith on the spot knowing that they might do something similar. As I said, because you didn't, you're now stuck in a corner with a big bill that you have little to no control over, as you didn't deal directly with the locksmith. If you were forced to court over the issue, I don't fancy your chances.

MalMonroe

I'm a council tenant and a similar issue once arose with the security lock on our front door. I phoned the council emergency line (of course it was out of hours as these things usually are) and to my amazement (because our council is known for its tardy ways) a workman was out to fix it (it needed changing) within the hour.

So if our tardy council consider it an emergency I have to agree with your tenant. I also live on a small, secure cul de sac with only 13 neighbours but I did feel vulnerable. Just me and my daughter living here and knowing we couldn't lock the door properly, even with a bolt at the top and bottom of the door - I wouldn't have been able to sleep. 

I just really think it's also about being a good and caring landlord. If something like that happened to someone who was renting their home from me, I'd want to make sure that they felt as safe and secure as I did in my own home. In fact, their home would probably be much better than mine. Of course, if you are happy to help when they feel scared and vulnerable, then you can carry on having a great relationship with them. Sometimes it is about much more than the law and what you should and shouldn't do. Sometimes it's just about doing the right thing. 

I also think that you know that the tenant isn't in the wrong, otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to come on the forum for approval. Pay up, say you're sorry it happened (don't have to say who was responsible or anything else) and move on. You really do not want to have an aggressive tenant going forward.

GDB2222

canaldumidi said:

I thought the new Housing (security and Home Protection) Act 2021 (S23) required all properties let on Assured Tenancies to have all ground floor windows and doors fitted with metal grills imbedded in the frame to Building Regualtions standards, and secured with 2 or more British Standards rated locks and one British Standards rated padlock?

Strange that I can't persuade Google to find that act.  

canaldumidi

Little logic here

MalMonroe said:

I'm a council tenant and a similar issue once arose with the security lock on our front door. I phoned the council emergency line (of course it was out of hours as these things usually are) and to my amazement (because our council is known for its tardy ways) a workman was out to fix it (it needed changing) within the hour.

So if our tardy council consider it an emergency I have to agree with your tenant.

Where is the evidence the council considered it an emergency? Landlords (whether private or social) have legal responsilities, but also have internal processes which can exceed the minimum requirements of the law.

Just because they chose to come out (since they had an employee or contracctor being paid to be around) does not imply they had to come out.

....

I just really think it's also about being a good and caring landlord.

that is not the same as defining what a LL has to do.

..... Sometimes it is about much more than the law and what you should and shouldn't do. Sometimes it's just about doing the right thing.  Ah! Indeed. But that's not what the OP asked.

I also think that you know that the tenant isn't in the wrong, otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to come on the forum for approval. ...

?????

I think it's far more likely the OP came here to see what others thought, not to simply 'seek approval' nor because he knew " that the tenant isn't in the wrong".

Many posters come here for clarification of their rights ad responsibilities - yes, some have pre-conceived ideas, but many are simply unsure and checking.

Tahlullah.H

canaldumidi said:

I thought the new Housing (security and Home Protection) Act 2021 (S23) required all properties let on Assured Tenancies to have all ground floor windows and doors fitted with metal grills imbedded in the frame to Building Regualtions standards, and secured with 2 or more British Standards rated locks and one British Standards rated padlock?

Not heard of this one either!  Really?  Ground floor properties to be fitted with metal grills in the windows?   Padlock on the door?  Is this a UK Act?  Is it for a house or a shed?

The sarcasm is strong in this one...

sidneyvic

I bet you if Tennant owned the house and would have had to foot the bill, they would have waited until after the bank holiday.
Tell them to do one.

Grumpy_chap

At the start this thread seemed like clearly a LL cost.
As more information was shared, the matter became more marginal but on balance it seemed like still a LL cost.
It may be a T cost if the T damaged the lock, but that will never be proven.
So, the LL has to carry this as part of the risk of running a business.

canaldumidi

Grumpy_chap said:

..
It may be a T cost if the T damaged the lock, but that will never be proven....

When the T submits the invoice to the LL it may specify what the problem was. And if it doesn't, the LL could contact the locksmith....

Hannimal

sidneyvic said:

I bet you if Tennant owned the house and would have had to foot the bill, they would have waited until after the bank holiday.
Tell them to do one.

But they don't and they pay rent to cover costs like these, so it doesn't really matter what they'd do if they owned the property. 

As a property owner myself I would probably not wait as an unlocked door would deem my house insurance void and it's not a risk worth taking. 

rahrah21

Hannimal said:

sidneyvic said:

I bet you if Tennant owned the house and would have had to foot the bill, they would have waited until after the bank holiday.
Tell them to do one.

But they don't and they pay rent to cover costs like these, so it doesn't really matter what they'd do if they owned the property. 

As a property owner myself I would probably not wait as an unlocked door would deem my house insurance void and it's not a risk worth taking. 

just one thing to point out, is that despite our advice to T they point blank refuse to take out contents insurance so that is a moot point in regards to invalidating the insurance as they don't have any. we have the building insured as owners.