Save electricity and money by using gas heated hot water

[Deleted User]

On the issue of cold water temperature: it depends on the outside air temperature so is cyclic being colder in winter than summer. My thoughts are that the energy label should reflect worst case which is winter with better efficiency a plus in summer.

Ebac are the only UK machine manufacture with a hot fill feature and I have spoken to their customer services who are non technical and I understood them to say that the hot fill only takes place on a 60 degree wash which is what other machine manufacturers with hot fill used to do before they dropped the feature.

The idea here (which has been put successfully into practice) is for hot water to fill the washing machine only on its first cycle for all cycles using an actuator three port ball valve and a timer. The valve is normally open to the cold water feed.

The process is to slowly open the hot tap in the sink next next to the washing machine until the boiler starts (this can be done automatically using a wax temperature controller such as the Teddington CombiSave gas and water saver) when the water runs hot close the tap and press the start button on the timer which turns the ball valve to the hot water supply. When the whirring of the actuator has stopped press the start button on the washing machine. The machine will fill with hot water and after say 10 minutes the timer will time out and the ball valve will return to the cold feed ready for the rinse cycles.

The incoming hot water is 58 degrees but drum cooling causes it to end up around 40 degrees. Hot washes of 60 degrees require supplemental heating from the machines inbuilt electric heater.

 

irharris

My last washing machine had a hot water feed - but it only ever cut in on 60 degree washes.

The other problem was my combi boiler - by the time the washing machine got any hot water, it had already filled up a good chunk of the way with cold water.

FreeBear

WattNext said: On the issue of cold water temperature: it depends on the outside air temperature so is cyclic being colder in winter than summer.

Not quite. Water pipes are buried in the ground, typically at a depth of around 1m. It is the ground temperature at this level that will affect the water temperature t the tap. Yes, air temperature does have a part to play if the water is drawn from a reservoir, but not to the extent that you might think - Take a look at the graph posted earlier.

QrizB

[Deleted User] said:

Ebac are the only UK machine manufacture with a hot fill feature and I have spoken to their customer services who are non technical and I understood them to say that the hot fill only takes place on a 60 degree wash which is what other machine manufacturers with hot fill used to do before they dropped the feature.

I have to wonder how many people wash regularly at 60C these days? I don't think I've done a wash hotter than 40C yet this year, and all the advice is to wash at 30C if you can.

You could end up paying £300 extra for a washing machine (Ebac's cheapest model is almost £600, my current machine was under £300) that saves nothing at all since it would always be cold filling.

Norman_Castle

[Deleted User] said:

 My thoughts are that the energy label should reflect worst case which is winter with better efficiency a plus in summer.

The energy label should reflect the most commonly used washing cycle in average circumstances and average incoming water temperature.

When I open a tap next to my washing machine it takes 11 litres of water wasted until the water is usably hot. This is from a cold boiler. This also leaves 11 litres of heated water unused in the pipework.

[Deleted User]

FreeBear said:

[Deleted User] said: On the issue of cold water temperature: it depends on the outside air temperature so is cyclic being colder in winter than summer.

Not quite. Water pipes are buried in the ground, typically at a depth of around 1m. It is the ground temperature at this level that will affect the water temperature t the tap. Yes, air temperature does have a part to play if the water is drawn from a reservoir, but not to the extent that you might think - Take a look at the graph posted earlier.

Au Contraire. Please refer to a study by Claudia Agudelo-Vera [et al] Published: 7 April 2020, Page 6, para 1.

[Deleted User]

Norman_Castle said:

[Deleted User] said:

 My thoughts are that the energy label should reflect worst case which is winter with better efficiency a plus in summer.

The energy label should reflect the most commonly used washing cycle in average circumstances and average incoming water temperature.When I open a tap next to my washing machine it takes 11 litres of water wasted until the water is usably hot. This is from a cold boiler. This also leaves 11 litres of heated water unused in the pipework.

irharris said:

My last washing machine had a hot water feed - but it only ever cut in on 60 degree washes.

The other problem was my combi boiler - by the time the washing machine got any hot water, it had already filled up a good chunk of the way with cold water.

Fit a Teddington CombiSave

FreeBear

[Deleted User] said:

FreeBear said:

[Deleted User] said: On the issue of cold water temperature: it depends on the outside air temperature so is cyclic being colder in winter than summer.

Not quite. Water pipes are buried in the ground, typically at a depth of around 1m. It is the ground temperature at this level that will affect the water temperature t the tap. Yes, air temperature does have a part to play if the water is drawn from a reservoir, but not to the extent that you might think - Take a look at the graph posted earlier.

Au Contraire. Please refer to a study by Claudia Agudelo-Vera [et al] Published: 7 April 2020, Page 6, para 1.

Abstract: Water temperature is often monitored at water sources and treatment works; however, there is limited monitoring of the water temperature in the drinking water distribution system (DWDS), despite a known impact on physical, chemical and microbial reactions which impact water quality. A key parameter influencing drinking water temperature is soil temperature, which is influenced by the urban heat island effects.

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