Will Copy Validity and Estranged Executor Questions

iwant2asave

Hello,

I have 2 Questions I wonder if people can help with.

This relates to a person who died having had a Will written at around year 1990 and had no Wills written since.  This Will was done via a company who wrote Wills and witnessed and signed by them (not a solicitor).

It is a printed and signed will from 1990 and the signatures are in ink (not a photocopy) but it has printed "COPY" on the bottom of each page.  Its unclear if there exists a version of the same Will without COPY printed on it.  This Will has 2 executors named on it and one of the executors has since become estranged from the family for about 15 years with no contact with either the deceased or the remaining executor (spouse).

Here are the questions :
 
1.  Since the Will has COPY printed on it (and is signed in ink not a photocopy), is that will valid or is it invalid because it has COPY printed on it?
2.  Assuming that the will is valid, given that one of the executors has been estranged, what should the remaining executor (spouse) do in order to proceed?

p00hsticks

1. Where was this copy of the will kept ? I don't believe that having the word 'copy' on it would make it invalid but if it was found in the deceased paperwork it would make me wonder if there was also an 'original' being stored by the company who made the will. Having said that, I'm not sure it's important as presumably the contents of both woudl be identical ......

2. I think the other executor would need to take steps to try to track doen the other executor and get them to renounce their executorship.

iwant2asave

p00hsticks said:

1. Where was this copy of the will kept ? I don't believe that having the word 'copy' on it would make it invalid but if it was found in the deceased paperwork it would make me wonder if there was also an 'original' being stored by the company who made the will. Having said that, I'm not sure it's important as presumably the contents of both woudl be identical ......

2. I think the other executor would need to take steps to try to track doen the other executor and get them to renounce their executorship.

Thanks for the replies.

1.  Yes it was found amongst deceased paperwork.
2.  Thanks, is there some form or other way that the estranged executor would need to fill to renounce their executorship?

Keep_pedalling

I would expect having copy stamped on it is going to cause a major issue as it is literally stating that it is not the original will. 

Are there major differences between the will and what would happen under intestacy rules?

p00hsticks

iwant2asave said:

p00hsticks said:

1. Where was this copy of the will kept ? I don't believe that having the word 'copy' on it would make it invalid but if it was found in the deceased paperwork it would make me wonder if there was also an 'original' being stored by the company who made the will. Having said that, I'm not sure it's important as presumably the contents of both woudl be identical ......

2. I think the other executor would need to take steps to try to track doen the other executor and get them to renounce their executorship.

Thanks for the replies.

2.  Thanks, is there some form or other way that the estranged executor would need to fill to renounce their executorship?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pa15-give-up-probate-executor-rights

poppystar

As all you have is a copy you will need to show that you have made attempts to find the original. Unless it’s changed since I did it, you will also have to fill in form PA13 with details of the efforts you have made. It will then be up to Probate office to make their decision whether to accept or not. Don’t expect a swift process. First port of call will be the people who drew up the original Will. Do you know who the witnesses were as you will almost certainly also need to find them? 

msb1234

Keep_pedalling said:

I would expect having copy stamped on it is going to cause a major issue as it is literally stating that it is not the original will. 

Are there major differences between the will and what would happen under intestacy rules?

This is a good point. If the beneficiaries of the will are the same people who would benefit if the person died intestate, surely it doesn’t matter? 

p00hsticks

msb1234 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I would expect having copy stamped on it is going to cause a major issue as it is literally stating that it is not the original will. 

Are there major differences between the will and what would happen under intestacy rules?

This is a good point. If the beneficiaries of the will are the same people who would benefit if the person died intestate, surely it doesn’t matter? 

Even if a will describes what would happen anyway under intestacy rules (as probably many do), I don't think you can legitimately pretend to the Probate Office that it doesn't exist, so it does matter.

And in this particular case, we know that one of the named executors is presumably not someone who would be eligible to apply for letters of administration.....

Keep_pedalling

p00hsticks said:

msb1234 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I would expect having copy stamped on it is going to cause a major issue as it is literally stating that it is not the original will. 

Are there major differences between the will and what would happen under intestacy rules?

This is a good point. If the beneficiaries of the will are the same people who would benefit if the person died intestate, surely it doesn’t matter? 

Even if a will describes what would happen anyway under intestacy rules (as probably many do), I don't think you can legitimately pretend to the Probate Office that it doesn't exist, so it does matter.

And in this particular case, we know that one of the named executors is presumably not someone who would be eligible to apply for letters of administration.....

The problem is without the original no one knows for sure if the testator actually revoked the original by destroying it or it is just lost. If intestacy rules deliver the same result as the copy of the will states then I don’t see a problem with applying for letters of administration. 

The real problem comes where there would be different outcomes and someone would lose out either because intestacy rules or because of the terms in the copy of the will. 

To administer the estate from the copy of the will Form PA13 needs to be completed, but it is unlikely that you will get approval to use that copy based on Q3 on that form. 

Has the original will been seen since the date of death? 

If you have answered ‘No’ there is a strong presumption that the original will was destroyed by the person who has died during their lifetime.

getmore4less

First step is to decide if a grant is needed.
(if the property is jointly owned it wont be needed for that(TIC or joint)

Anything else  like National savings, shares  or large back balances in sole ownership.

In many cases of first death of married couples a grant is not needed, the Executor(s) can proceed without a grant as their powers come from the will.

Keep_pedalling

getmore4less said:

First step is to decide if a grant is needed.
(if the property is jointly owned it wont be needed for that(TIC or joint)

Anything else  like National savings, shares  or large back balances in sole ownership.

In many cases of first death of married couples a grant is not needed, the Executor(s) can proceed without a grant as their powers come from the will.

Good point I missed the bit about a surviving spouse being one of the executors. Unless the surviving spouse has the original of their own will they need to get a new one drawn up. Even if they do they should review it to see if it is still fit for purpose as many old wills have obsolete clauses in them such as the NRB clause which became obsolete for married couples when the transferable NRB was introduced.