Mother not paid rent on joint tenancy

futurewealthcreator

Hey everyone this is my first post. Me and my mother have been renting a two bedroom flat in London for a year and a half. I’ve always paid my half of rent and bills to her.

This week I received a call from the letting agency informing me that two months rent has not been paid and they are starting served a notice of seeking possession on the property.

I’m completely livid about this! She said she’s contact them but I dunno. I think that she’d told them not to add me to emails and calls because I’ve had no contact from them.

I dunno what to do. At this point I want to move out because what she’s done is unforgivable. This isn’t the first time shes not paid her rent either. In previous properties she’s done the same and I’ve had to sort it out.

It feels like a toxic situation. Especially since I know she will guilt trip me to stay and most likely make me pay the missing rent. I spoke with a friend and they recommended I speak with a lawyer but I don’t want to sue my mother.

My question is what are my options? Do I try and get money together to move out? Will this go on my credit? Do I have to go to court? Am I liable for unpaid rent?

canaldumidi

You are a joint tenant so you are in rent arrears. If the full rent owed is not paid

* you can both be evicted (S8 G8 process) and

* you and/or your mother can be sued for the full rent (note, not just 'your' half)

Your options are

* pursuade your mother to pay the rent arrears in full ie 'her' half plus the half you've laready paid her

* Pay the rent arrears in full yourself

* reach a compromise with her to pay the full rent arrears between you

* do nothing and wait for court action and eviction

* move out and hope the landlord does not know how to find you, and sue you,  leaving your mother to be evicted/sued

* negotiate with the landlord eg to surrender the tenancy. This will involve a) both of you moving out and b) the rent arrears being paid and probably c) some compensaton for the extra LL's costs (finding new tenants). Though he may be so pleased to se you go that he does not demand c)!

What amazes me is that  I’ve always paid my half of rent and bills to her......This isn’t the first time shes not paid her rent either. In previous properties she’s done the same and I’ve had to sort it out. Have you learned nothing? Why still rent with her? Why on a joint tenancy? Why not pay the rent yourself?.....!!

Have you learned nothing? Why still rent with her? Why on a joint tenancy? Why not pay the rent yourself?.....!!

Do I try and get money together to move out? Will this go on my credit? Do I have to go to court? Am I liable for unpaid rent?

* Do you mean get the money for a new place, or money to pay the arrears? Yes, and yes!

* If the rent is not paid, AND you are taken to court, AND you still do not pay, then yes it goes on your credit record.

* Yes you should (don't have to) go to court IF the landlord sues you for the money and IF you want to defend his case against you. Though.... what defense?. Similarly if he just evicts you (S8 G*) you do not have to go/defend. In both cases if you do not go to court he will win automatically.

* yes you are a joint tenant so you are liable for the unpaid rent.

....they recommended I speak with a lawyer but I don’t want to sue my mother.

Suing you mother is an option, but probably not a good one

* not good for personal/family relations!

* you might not win (what if she says you never paid her? Can you prove it?)

* it will take time - what will you do meantime regarding the rent arrears?

* it will be stressful!

* has she got any money? Even if you win in court, if she has no money the court will order her to pay you at £5 pw? £20? And when she stops paying even that (after 3 weeks) you'll have to go back to court, meanwhile running up court costs....

she’d told them not to add me to emails and calls because I’ve had no contact from them.

Well instruct them to keep you informed. You are their tenant!

received a call from the letting agency informing me that two months rent has not been paid and they are starting served a notice of seeking possession

Dd the call say they were have already started, and if so how? Or they are going to start? I ask because any official S8 Notice needs to include your name, and be sent to you as well as her. You are a joint tenant. Or might they have sent a copy to you which she has hidden......?

RAS

Can you confirm that you are named on the tenancy agreement as a joint tenant with your mother? Not as a permitted occupier?

If so, you are both jointly liable for all the rent all the time as per canaldumidi.

Are you currently in the fixed term? If so, when does that end? You both remain liable for the whole rent until the end of the term, unless the LL agrees an early surrender.

Given you know that your mother has form re not paying rent, make sure you pay "your portion" directly to the agency or LL as required by the tenancy agreement.

You can help stave off repossession by getting the arrears down below 2 months, which gives you some defence against an automatic possession order. 

But you'd have to keep that going until the end of the tenancy (which is when you both vacate the property at the end of the fixed term or notice period, or early surrender). I.E, you're going to find yourself paying the whole rent unless you can extract it from mum.

You can't unfortunately just walk away from this if you are a joint tenant. If you do and mum carries on not paying rent the debt you (both) owe just increases. 

Basically, you need to speak to your mother and try and get her to pay the arrears, if possible.

I'd advise that the minimum requirement is a monthly meeting on payday to ensure her portion of the rent has been paid?  It maybe that she has other debt and talking to one of the debt charities would help her prioritise her payments?

However, I'd suggest that a better option maybe that get her to agree to ask for an early surrender? That means asking the LL to agree to let you both leave the tenancy early. And if mum was stupid enough to try and stay on, then the LL is entitled to seek compensation (double rent). If you're lucky the LL might not chase the current arrears as they are so glad to get shot quickly.

Mean-time, do you have any friends or relatives who could offer you a room when the tenancy ends, until you get a deposit saved up? Can you start to scope out places where you might store stuff if you have to move out without another tenancy?

And please check the situation regarding Council Tax. Unless you are a student, you could also find yourself liable for that as well, if mum has not been paying. 

futurewealthcreator

canaldumidi said:

You are a joint tenant so you are in rent arrears. If the full rent owed is not paid

* you can both be evicted (S8 G8 process) and

* you and/or your mother can be sued for the full rent (note, not just 'your' half)

Your options are

* pursuade your mother to pay the rent arrears in full ie 'her' half plus the half you've laready paid her

* Pay the rent arrears in full yourself

* reach a compromise with her to pay the full rent arrears between you

* do nothing and wait for court action and eviction

* move out and hope the landlord does not know how to find you, and sue you,  leaving your mother to be evicted/sued

* negotiate with the landlord eg to surrender the tenancy. This will involve a) both of you moving out and b) the rent arrears being paid and probably c) some compensaton for the extra LL's costs (finding new tenants). Though he may be so pleased to se you go that he does not demand c)!

What amazes me is that  I’ve always paid my half of rent and bills to her......This isn’t the first time shes not paid her rent either. In previous properties she’s done the same and I’ve had to sort it out. Have you learned nothing? Why still rent with her? Why on a joint tenancy? Why not pay the rent yourself?.....!!

Have you learned nothing? Why still rent with her? Why on a joint tenancy? Why not pay the rent yourself?.....!!

Do I try and get money together to move out? Will this go on my credit? Do I have to go to court? Am I liable for unpaid rent?

* Do you mean get the money for a new place, or money to pay the arrears? Yes, and yes!

* If the rent is not paid, AND you are taken to court, AND you still do not pay, then yes it goes on your credit record.

* Yes you should (don't have to) go to court IF the landlord sues you for the money and IF you want to defend his case against you. Though.... what defense?. Similarly if he just evicts you (S8 G*) you do not have to go/defend. In both cases if you do not go to court he will win automatically.

* yes you are a joint tenant so you are liable for the unpaid rent.

....they recommended I speak with a lawyer but I don’t want to sue my mother.

Suing you mother is an option, but probably not a good one

* not good for personal/family relations!

* you might not win (what if she says you never paid her? Can you prove it?)

* it will take time - what will you do meantime regarding the rent arrears?

* it will be stressful!

* has she got any money? Even if you win in court, if she has no money the court will order her to pay you at £5 pw? £20? And when she stops paying even that (after 3 weeks) you'll have to go back to court, meanwhile running up court costs....

she’d told them not to add me to emails and calls because I’ve had no contact from them.

Well instruct them to keep you informed. You are their tenant!

received a call from the letting agency informing me that two months rent has not been paid and they are starting served a notice of seeking possession

Dd the call say they were have already started, and if so how? Or they are going to start? I ask because any official S8 Notice needs to include your name, and be sent to you as well as her. You are a joint tenant. Or might they have sent a copy to you which she has hidden......?

In the past when she did this I was a child/ young adult. I ended up having to contact family to help so we didn’t end up being kicked out or have them put us up in a hotel.

It’s nearly £3k that has not been paid. I couldn’t afford to pay that. The only reason I moved in was because I was in a houseshare and the tenants I lived with were a nightmare.

I thought this would be different since we were both paying half and it was more affordable to her. The letting agent at the time requested that one person pay. Since she was paid monthly and I’m paid weekly it make sense for her to do the payments from her account.

I’ve got proof that I’ve paid her through bank statements and text messages. I’m more worried about trying to rent somewhere new and them asking my current place with them saying I’ve missed rent payments.

The said they have started legal proceedings this week. It’s already in the post to us. I’ve already asked them to send me all the emails they’ve sent my mother along with the rent statement. 

I’m on a rolling tenancy and it says I can move within a months notice. Don’t know if that will help me.

futurewealthcreator

RAS said:

Can you confirm that you are named on the tenancy agreement as a joint tenant with your mother? Not as a permitted occupier?

If so, you are both jointly liable for all the rent all the time as per canaldumidi.

Are you currently in the fixed term? If so, when does that end? You both remain liable for the whole rent until the end of the term, unless the LL agrees an early surrender.

Given you know that your mother has form re not paying rent, make sure you pay "your portion" directly to the agency or LL as required by the tenancy agreement.

You can help stave off repossession by getting the arrears down below 2 months, which gives you some defence against an automatic possession order. 

But you'd have to keep that going until the end of the tenancy (which is when you both vacate the property at the end of the fixed term or notice period, or early surrender). I.E, you're going to find yourself paying the whole rent unless you can extract it from mum.

You can't unfortunately just walk away from this if you are a joint tenant. If you do and mum carries on not paying rent the debt you (both) owe just increases. 

Basically, you need to speak to your mother and try and get her to pay the arrears, if possible.

I'd advise that the minimum requirement is a monthly meeting on payday to ensure her portion of the rent has been paid?  It maybe that she has other debt and talking to one of the debt charities would help her prioritise her payments?

However, I'd suggest that a better option maybe that get her to agree to ask for an early surrender? That means asking the LL to agree to let you both leave the tenancy early. And if mum was stupid enough to try and stay on, then the LL is entitled to seek compensation (double rent). If you're lucky the LL might not chase the current arrears as they are so glad to get shot quickly.

Mean-time, do you have any friends or relatives who could offer you a room when the tenancy ends, until you get a deposit saved up? Can you start to scope out places where you might store stuff if you have to move out without another tenancy?

And please check the situation regarding Council Tax. Unless you are a student, you could also find yourself liable for that as well, if mum has not been paying. 

Thank you this was really helpful. I’m on a rolling tenancy and it says I can move within a months notice.

I’ve checked other bills and they are all up to date. I’m worried though about renting somewhere else. Don’t they ask about previous landlords and rent arrears.

If I could afford to clear it myself I would but that’s just not possible right now.

markin

Has she actually managed to spend her rent and yours or just hers, You will need to save money for a new deposit.

TripleH

Where has the money gone?

I ask because this could be an indicator of hidden problems your mother is having.

(Don't feel you need to answer, have a think about it). Are there any other family members you can talk this through with?

RAS

Thanks for the response.

I assume that you have a bank account, or two? So you could set up a standing order to pay the rent monthly? And demand that mum sets up a standing order on her payday or sit over her whilst she does an on-line transfer, to pay you half the rent? Would stop things getting worse.

There are several ways in which the EA could take action to recover the property.

S21 is no fault notice, which any EA worth their salt will now issue. It is however dependant on the LL and EA getting a lot paperwork correct and it takes quite a lot of time to go through the courts.

G8 is a ground for mandatory repossession and will go through the courts much more quickly. This requires that the rent is two months in arrears. If you can somehow or other get mum to pay the rent on time going forward, and I'd strongly advise you make her transfer into your account and you make the payment since she can't be trusted, then the arrears won't increase.

Then if you pay a very small amount off the arrears, as long as you get the arrears under 2 months, ground 8 will fail.

But the the S21 will work eventually and they would also use the persistent arrears, albeit under 2 months, to gain possession in the medium term. Read Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants — MoneySavingExpert Forum

The problem with the rolling tenancy is that although you could give the required notice, if mum doesn't move out on that date then the LL can sue YOU (and mum) for twice the rent so you can only terminate the tenancy if she agrees.

Is it a contractual or statutory periodic tenancy- read the tenancy agreement - so you know the rules before you do anything.

I'm afraid mum has pretty much scuppered your chances of getting a house share through an agency, and you're not likely to get a good reference off the EA either (but ask, they may have some sympathy). So you might be looking at lodgings. 

I'd suggest once you've got the arrears below 2 months rent (assuming you can keep it there) you need to put everything spare into saving for a new deposit and a month's rent in advance. 

Check the tenancy agreement to find out whether the LL can claim unpaid rent through the deposit scheme? Even if not, if you can return the property in the same condition is which it was rented (get a copy of the incoming inventory), it might be worth permitting the LL to keep the deposit in exchange for not pursuing the other half of the arrears.

So you need a long and very hard talk with mum ASAP, and she needs to understand that the tenancy will have to end soon unless she pays the arrears, either because the LL will gain possession or because you are no longer prepared to risk sharing with her.

And the fees for the repossession will be added to the arrears, so she might be best to get out sooner anyway.

futurewealthcreator

markin said:

Has she actually managed to spend her rent and yours or just hers, You will need to save money for a new deposit.

She’s definitely spent it. I’ve been sent a rent payment record from the agent and the money has not been paid for two months.

I’m wondering if I should take my next pay and just move out but also I don’t want this on my credit record.

I’m thinking of contacting the letting agency again and work out a payment plan for owed rent and ask them to take the deposit for part payment.

futurewealthcreator

TripleH said:

Where has the money gone?

I ask because this could be an indicator of hidden problems your mother is having.

(Don't feel you need to answer, have a think about it). Are there any other family members you can talk this through with?

I did ask and she got defensive about it. Most of my family live abroad. I know my brother would help but I feel bad since he’s just had a baby. 

futurewealthcreator

RAS said:

Thanks for the response.

I assume that you have a bank account, or two? So you could set up a standing order to pay the rent monthly? And demand that mum sets up a standing order on her payday or sit over her whilst she does an on-line transfer, to pay you half the rent? Would stop things getting worse.

There are several ways in which the EA could take action to recover the property.

S21 is no fault notice, which any EA worth their salt will now issue. It is however dependant on the LL and EA getting a lot paperwork correct and it takes quite a lot of time to go through the courts.

G8 is a ground for mandatory repossession and will go through the courts much more quickly. This requires that the rent is two months in arrears. If you can somehow or other get mum to pay the rent on time going forward, and I'd strongly advise you make her transfer into your account and you make the payment since she can't be trusted, then the arrears won't increase.

Then if you pay a very small amount off the arrears, as long as you get the arrears under 2 months, ground 8 will fail.

But the the S21 will work eventually and they would also use the persistent arrears, albeit under 2 months, to gain possession in the medium term. Read Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants — MoneySavingExpert Forum

The problem with the rolling tenancy is that although you could give the required notice, if mum doesn't move out on that date then the LL can sue YOU (and mum) for twice the rent so you can only terminate the tenancy if she agrees.

Is it a contractual or statutory periodic tenancy- read the tenancy agreement - so you know the rules before you do anything.

I'm afraid mum has pretty much scuppered your chances of getting a house share through an agency, and you're not likely to get a good reference off the EA either (but ask, they may have some sympathy). So you might be looking at lodgings. 

I'd suggest once you've got the arrears below 2 months rent (assuming you can keep it there) you need to put everything spare into saving for a new deposit and a month's rent in advance. 

Check the tenancy agreement to find out whether the LL can claim unpaid rent through the deposit scheme? Even if not, if you can return the property in the same condition is which it was rented (get a copy of the incoming inventory), it might be worth permitting the LL to keep the deposit in exchange for not pursuing the other half of the arrears.

So you need a long and very hard talk with mum ASAP, and she needs to understand that the tenancy will have to end soon unless she pays the arrears, either because the LL will gain possession or because you are no longer prepared to risk sharing with her.

And the fees for the repossession will be added to the arrears, so she might be best to get out sooner anyway.

I’ve definitely decided to move out. I’ve spoken to her and she said I was being rude asking justified questions about where the money went.

I’m going to contact the agents and just work out a plan for paying off the arrears so it doesn’t go further and move out ASAP. Hopefully I can find a landlord who’s understanding and get them to take me as a tenant.