Land registry - vendor doesn’t legally own part of the garden

J66998821

Hi, I’m hoping someone could give me some advice about a property we are trying to purchase. 

We have been attempting to buy this property for a couple of months now and it’s just come to light they the vendors don’t legally own a large part of the garden. It was given to the previous owners decades ago but not added to the title on the land registry. So the house is listed under name X but half the garden is listed under name Y. Vendors are trying to sell X and Y.

Vendors solicitors are attempting to resolve this issue and have been for over 3 months. We understand that they need to register the land in vendors name before we could purchase it. Yet vendors solicitors have not yet submitted an application to the land registry.

our solicitors say once the application is submitted there would then be a large backlog at land registry to register the land but can’t give timescales.

What are your thoughts here? Anyone have experience of this? 

Firstly, why the hold up in submitting the application to land registry? What options could vendors solicitors be considering? What are the risks? Could the land registry turn down their application? What happens then? 

Secondly any indication of how long land registry could take to resolve this?No one seems to be able to tell us, a timescale of a few weeks is very different to 6 months. 

We feel quite in the dark here. Can anyone please enlighten us as to what could possibly be going on? We have discussed at length with our solicitor but they can’t/won’t tell us what the issue is.

Many thanks in advance 

Tiglet2

We had the same issue with a piece of land in our garden, which was unregistered.  It took 3 months to resolve, including expedition due to selling at the same time.  

Your issue might be because the land is actually registered.  I'm assuming that this land is on a separate title.  To transfer the garden into the vendor's name, the solicitor and Land Registry need to have a signed Transfer form (TR1) from the former vendor agreeing the sale.  How easy is it to trace the former vendor?  How long ago was the sale to your vendor?  I realise you may not know the answer to this, but the former vendor will need to be contacted and be willing to sign the transfer documents.  

The vendor's solicitor cannot submit an application to the Land Registry until they have the signed Transfer and I imagine this is what is holding up the transaction. 

Once the vendor's solicitors have the correct paperwork, they can submit it to the Land Registry with a request for expedition and the length of time it takes then maybe a few weeks, providing the paperwork is in order.

MalMonroe

Hi, I don't think three months is a long time. My friends have just bought a house and there were no problems, everything was very straightforward and although they couldn't understand why, it has taken just over six months from when their offer was first accepted.

With the added complications you are facing I think that it may take longer than six months but certainly three months isn't long at all. You are probably going to have to hang tight but it seems like these things just take time, as per Tiglet2's comment above. 

markin

Be ready for the owner to say no, or be dead, or maybe it was never really sold to them at all. What is the value of this land if it wasn't part of the sale anymore.

canaldumidi

Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but I'm not clear whether

a) the land in question is registered, as a complete plot, but in the name of the former owner still (timescales will depend on tracing that owner, and him being willing to sign a TR1 to transfer the plot toyour vendor), or

b) the land is registered in the name of the former owner still, but is registered as part of his larger garden and house (he just sold off a portion of his garden). He'll then need to sign a TP1 to transfer part of the plot to your vendor),, along with a survey/Plan showing exactly which bit of garden he sold

c) the land is unregistered, and again as a) and b) above is either a complete plot on its own, or was part of a larger plot that needs splitting.

Timescales will vary depending on complexity....

Woolsery

Timescales may be reduced when there is a purchase involved, but you'd need to ask on the Land Registry thread about that once there's clarity about the actual work needed here.

Ath_Wat

How was it given, and by whom?  Do they actually have anything to prove it was given to them, or is it just "Oh, John said we could have that, but he's dead now".

J66998821

Just had a bit more information. The land belongs to couple A who gifted it to couple B decades ago. Couple B sold the house to family C and D. Family D now trying to sell to us. Land still registered in the name of couple A on the land registry I think? 

Our solicitor says that the sellers don’t have the full paperwork and can only apply for ‘possessory title’ for the garden land.m which could take ‘some time’ and might be refused.

The bank may also refuse to loan us the full mortgage based on this information. 

Another problem when we came to sell the property would be future buyer would need the title to be upgraded to absolute and the land registry might still say no.

The land is fairly substantial it forms 50 percent of the garden and is one of the key features of the house. 

Any advice on how we should proceed or next steps to take greatly received. We have tried to contact the vendor to understand their position but haven’t had any response. Very frustrating at the sellers were aware of this but didn’t disclose it when we put an offer in 4 or 5 months ago. 

babyblade41

If owner A is no longer around then the only way as I see it is adverse possession but you will need as much evidence as you can possibly find.

If you get AP then a possessory title will be given & can then be upgraded to full title in 12 years .

I went through this process 3.5 years ago .  It did add a delay but still only 14 weeks from offer to completion. You can ask for it to be expedited if you have a sale going through

I have just exchanged on my property yesterday, still with AP  & couple buying with mortgage so no problems on that score 

J66998821

Not sure why this hadn’t been converted to absolute title though because the vendors have been in this house over 12 years. 

What happens if we buy with possessory title and decide to move after 5 years? 

My fear is we spend lots of money updating the property etc but then end up taking a loss on it due to the title situation. 

Our solicitors verbally told us ‘we might want to reconsider this property’ is this as close as they are allowed to get to saying run away? 

user1977

J66998821 said:

The land is fairly substantial it forms 50 percent of the garden and is one of the key features of the house. 

Is it essential for the rest of the house e.g. is it used for access or have anything important built on it? If you take the worst case scenario of having no title to that bit, what would the effect on value of the remainder of the property be?