Electrics — Fitting New Sockets?

Bendy_House

laurencewhymark said:

GDB2222 said:

laurencewhymark said:

Hi all, thanks for your replies.

In the photo with the third unused cable, there is indeed a socket spurred off this socket.

99% sure there are no FCUs hanging around, as these are all just standard sockets throughout the house (not the kitchen, with the heavy duty appliances).

And, the spurred socket is not live?

The spurred socket is live!

And that doesn't seem to surprise you? Given that the suspect third cable is NOT connected?

Or have I missed summat?

paperclap

Bendy_House said:

laurencewhymark said:

GDB2222 said:

laurencewhymark said:

Hi all, thanks for your replies.

In the photo with the third unused cable, there is indeed a socket spurred off this socket.

99% sure there are no FCUs hanging around, as these are all just standard sockets throughout the house (not the kitchen, with the heavy duty appliances).

And, the spurred socket is not live?

The spurred socket is live!

And that doesn't seem to surprise you? Given that the suspect third cable is NOT connected?

Or have I missed summat?

Bendy_House said:

laurencewhymark said:

GDB2222 said:

laurencewhymark said:

Hi all, thanks for your replies.

In the photo with the third unused cable, there is indeed a socket spurred off this socket.

99% sure there are no FCUs hanging around, as these are all just standard sockets throughout the house (not the kitchen, with the heavy duty appliances).

And, the spurred socket is not live?

The spurred socket is live!

And that doesn't seem to surprise you? Given that the suspect third cable is NOT connected?

Or have I missed summat?

Yes it does surprise me! 

I would have assumed a third cable would be reserved for a to-be connected spurred socket! But given its already live, it can’t be for that one.

Just drawing up the diagram (previous post) it has made me remember there is another spurred socket, going into the living room. That isn’t live. So I now believe it is for that socket, to connect it to the main ring.

paperclap

Actually, it can’t be for the living room socket, as that has two sets of wiring out ready for it!

Agh!

fenwick458

I can't see this ending well, I think you need to get your electrician back. or if not them then any electrician could probably figure out what to do to connect it all if they get to see it all up but I'm not getting it from the diagrams.
the 8 new backboxes with new cables, assuming they are dead now, if you were to wire a socket onto it, they'll still be dead.... and will need connected somewhere else
if there's 8 new sockets do they all have 2 cables at them? the existing socket with a new cable at it also, if thats the "17th cable end" you've found, that's an odd number of ends, so you've either missed something or there's a joint box hidden somewhere.
are all of the red sockets on the same circuit from the consumer unit and what rating is it, i.e B32?
sometimes I will 1st fix a job like this and not install an RCD/RCBO until I go back to finish it off and test it, how do you know your electrician hasn't done this too? 

grumbler

laurencewhymark said:

I’ve made what is hopefully a clear diagram of the socket setup in our house.

Blue box = Back box with two sets of wiring

Red box with purple dot = Live socket, with rogue third set of wiring

Yellow squiggly line = I remember this horizontal section being chased out in this room and into the living room, so believe this is a spur too

A spur must have one set of wiring.

All the above boxes have more than one.

Have I misunderstood anything?

Bendy_House

I'd, typically, be all for going ahead with this sort of task if I was confident the person understood the circuits they were dealing with. It's not a reflection of your competence in carrying out the physical task, LwM - I suspect you more than are - but that there's at least two circuits involved here, possibly more, and no-one knows for certain what they are, or even if they've been completed and properly protected, as Fen points out.

Are ALL these faceplates being replaced with new? A straight swap with already-fitted sockets is doable, but even then the sparky will be coming back to a half- done job and has to either accept you've done 'your' bit properly (eg NOT done the newbie classic of twisting the wires together - I personally blush at that one...) or else needs to undo and check them all - taking up pretty much the same overall time.

Since this one is clearly NOT straight-forward and WILL require a sparky in any event, sadly I think it should be left.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

Since this one is clearly NOT straight-forward and WILL require a sparky in any event, sadly I think it should be left.

Completely agree.  It isn't just the physical work of wiring the circuit(s) up, there's the additional stages of working out what the electrician has done so far, then testing the circuit(s)/system after doing the physical work, and the really difficult bit of figuring out how to get the paperwork.

There's no 'MSE' advantage to DIYing this, and considerable risks involved in trying.

Section62

grumbler said:

Have I misunderstood anything?

That the electrician was only part way through the job, therefore some locations might have more cables than they should, some might have fewer?

Without fully understanding what the electrician was doing it isn't safe/useful to count the number of cables at each point and guess at what purpose they serve.

If the electrician has jury-rigged things to keep some of the sockets live during the works then possibilities other than the standard methods of working might be present.

Ectophile

My guess is that the electrician intended to extend the ring. A single spur from a socket is OK. But spurs off spurs isn't, and neither is multiple spurs off the same socket.

If you are adding several new sockets, the best way is to break the ring at an appropriate point, then remake the ring to include all the new sockets.

The electrician may have run in a bunch of wires ready to make this new extension to the ring, but not connected them yet.

Norman_Castle

As above, the ring is being extended, work in progress. One picture shows unused new cable and old cable in use, another shows presumably unconnected cables. Connected as they are so you have working electrics.