Taking utility to court

Ekuuleus

I am considering taking British Gas to court.  Reading up, there is  a view you cannot claim costs in a small claims court.

I'm a little mystified with that.  British Gas added a charge for non payment of £13.  If you cannot claim your time and thus costs from the supplier in a court of law, how can they add arbitrary charges without even going to court.

They have then added a further charge of £7 to instruct debt collectors.

A little background.

They took over a Gas supply at property 1 some time ago.  I use virtually no gas and have basically  a standing charge of £25 per quarter.

Last year (Feb 2021) they took over a failed supplier.  Even though that showed as £3000 in credit, they continued taking direct debits.  The final bill was produced last year from the old supplier and British gas show the account in credit.  After taking 

January 2022, they took over the electricity for property 1.  Together energy took another direct debit in February.  I therefore cancelled all direct debits.  Together energy have sent me all my account details some time ago.

I have been asking British Gas for my money on property 2,  and had the run around for the last 2 months.   They credit balance from together energy, which is the same property for the Gas, is over £3000.

British Gas seems to think it is totally acceptable to add arbitrary charges on the account within weeks of it being due, whilst spending months to return my money.

I really don't see how this can be accepted as legal.  I've spent weeks of my time chasing them.  Can I file for my costs or would that get thrown out of the small claims.  Is there any legal process or should I just sdas  there offices?  

Ergates

Does your contract with British Gas allow you to claim costs?  I'm willing to be it allows them to do so.

Alderbank

Ekuuleus said:

I am considering taking British Gas to court.  Reading up, there is  a view you cannot claim costs in a small claims court.

I'm a little mystified with that.  British Gas added a charge for non payment of £13.  If you cannot claim your time and thus costs from the supplier in a court of law, how can they add arbitrary charges without even going to court.

They have then added a further charge of £7 to instruct debt collectors.

A little background.

They took over a Gas supply at property 1 some time ago.  I use virtually no gas and have basically  a standing charge of £25 per quarter.

Last year (Feb 2021) they took over a failed supplier.  Even though that showed as £3000 in credit, they continued taking direct debits.  The final bill was produced last year from the old supplier and British gas show the account in credit.  After taking 

January 2022, they took over the electricity for property 1.  Together energy took another direct debit in February.  I therefore cancelled all direct debits.  Together energy have sent me all my account details some time ago.

I have been asking British Gas for my money on property 2,  and had the run around for the last 2 months.   They credit balance from together energy, which is the same property for the Gas, is over £3000.

British Gas seems to think it is totally acceptable to add arbitrary charges on the account within weeks of it being due, whilst spending months to return my money.

I really don't see how this can be accepted as legal.  I've spent weeks of my time chasing them.  Can I file for my costs or would that get thrown out of the small claims.  Is there any legal process or should I just sdas  there offices?  

You can claim certain costs provided of course you have receipts for what you have paid out. The forms specifically allow for that.

What you have said is quite confusing to me. BG might also be struggling to understand.
Are you saying that you have a surplus in one account so you have cancelled the direct debit on another account in the expectation that BG will pay the second account from the surplus of the first account? I don't think that will end well.

I don't think you should 'sdas  there offices' whatever that means. Is it even legal?

Ergates

The "You can't claim costs in small claims" refers to the costs of bringing the case.   i.e. if you take a business to small claims and lose, they can't come after you to recoup the costs of defending their case.  This is kind of what it's for - it enables "normal" people to bring court case without the risk of being bankrupted if they lose.

It doesn't mean you can't use the small claims court to recover costs you've incurred due to some issue.   However, that doesn't necessarily mean you *can* reclaim your costs from BG.

Just to reiterate what Alderbank says - the main body of your post is largely incoherent.  For starters, I think you've mixed up property 1 and 2 at least once.   Read through it, slowly, and edit it so we can understand what your issue is.  Then people may be able to offer advice as to your next steps.

sheramber

You say they took over the supply for property 1.

But you want money from property 2.

Where does property 2 come into the equation?

born_again

If you cancelled the DD's & these fail. Then they are within their rights to charge for this. Covered in the T/C The fact you had a £3000 credit has nothing to do with the DD's and payments due.
As you pointed out. The credit is from house 2. Not 1. But even if it was on the same house it would be the same.

In future it would be very MSE to not let a credit get anywhere near that figure...

Ekuuleus

I have had a hell of a time with Scottish Power.  Maybe I'm being a little harsh or sensitive on British Gas.  I couldn't deal with anything for a while.

Let me lay it out a different way

Property 1 - Lived here decades.

Ebico (Gas) taken over 2019/2020 - £25 per quarter.  Paid By direct debit, basically a standing charge and extreme low usage.

Together energy(Electricity) - Taken over January/February 2022  DD  
Balance at January shows credit of £3000.  Actual usage about 9000 kWh lower than estimated so outstanding amount closer to £4000.  Together energy had a number of readings but used higher values anyway for billing purposes.

Together energy took another direct debit February 22 - over a month after no longer trading.  


Property 2 - Wife moved here September 2019

Supposed to move Gas and electricity to Simplicity from Scottish Power September 2019.  Scottish Power recorded wrong MPRN for Gas meter.  I got a little depressed trying to deal with them.  Hours on phone.  Simplicity taking amount for both fuels but only had electricity.  Made a payment to Scottish power to clear balance Mar 2020 on condition they move supply to Simplicity.  They never did, so I have case with ombudsman for this ongoing.

Simplicity taken over February 2021 by British gas. DD
May 2021 showed credit transferred from Simplicity of £2000.  British Gas continued to take £184 per month.  Actual usage about 9000 kWh higher than estimated so, after adjusting for usage, British Gas owe me about £2000.


Recent Timeline

24th January, Email from British gas - taking over Together energy 

After together energy DD in February, cancelled all direct debits (about 23rd February).

Emailed British gas about incorrect reading at property 2.  It's still bouncing around with long delays of British Gas not replying.  At this point I was not overly concerned getting a refund for the credit balance.  Just a little irritated that with a balance of over £2000, that they continue taking direct debits.

Email for British Gas 25th February - 'We've noticed that the Direct Debit set up on your account has been cancelled. Please get in touch with us on our webchat so we can make sure that your future payments stay on track.'  (Owe me over £2000)

Actually no email from British Gas for property 1 regarding direct debit.

25th March, email from British gas Property 1 together energy (Elect) - It has the same account number as Property 1 (Gas).  Details is transfer in progress.

28th March email, 30th March text message - Property 1 bill overdue -The email is no-reply.  If i don't pay by 04.04.2022 a £13 pound charge.   I click link to say I want to discuss this.  

I don't get a call or email back, I try and call them and call queue over 24 hours.  Website is down every time I check and can only enter meter readings.  I enter the meter readings for all 3 supplies for the 31st March date as this is the great price increase date.

British Gas adds £13.  I phone them.  The operator states the new bill is higher because of the meter reading.  I question this.  He gives me the 2 meter readings.  I calculate 6 units and ask is 6 units £24 which he says yes.  I go through the calc - 6 units at 39CV and 1.022VC times 4p is about £2.64.  He says my maths is wrong and it's not 6 clicks. Get him to repeat the 2 meter readings, then he says you cant convert 6 clicks to a price.  He then puts me through to a dead end number for 15 minutes.

I then get debt collection letters.  Another £7 added to the bill.

After the debt collection agency, I called again.  The British Gas person was confused.   


I really don't see how large companies can charge costs when it's a few milliseconds of computer time.   By the same token, it's people's real time trying to battle them.  That's loss of earnings and stress.  

[Deleted User]

I really don't see how large companies can charge costs when it's a few milliseconds of computer time.   

It's not just a few milliseconds of computer time though.

The computers don't programme themselves, or write and post the chasing letters, or man the call centre, or pay the lost interest on a reduced income.

And having no penalty for paying late means that everyone may as well pay late, so that's a price increase for everyone, instead of only the late payers paying for late payments.

molerat

Judges do not take kindly to people going to court before utilising the dispute resolution procedure.

Ergates

So, one thing it seems is that when British Gas took over Together energy, they also took over it's accounts/DDs.   This make sense really, otherwise all customers would have had to set up new DDs, which would be a massive amount of work and a pain in the backside for customers.

So, the payment taken in Feb wasn't Together Energy, it was British Gas, and when you cancelled it, you cancelled the payments for British Gas - who are your current supplier.   
When they sent the first email, that was the time to have got in touch with them to set it back up again. It's not clear why you didn't, but that's in the past now.

If you have a large credit balance with them (which they should acknowledge), then this is a separate issue, and doesn't mean you can stop paying your bills.   You should be able to get them to refund that - though it sounds like you're struggling with that.




It's still not clear how Property 2 fits into the story - other than being another address where you have a large credit balance.
One thing is especially unclear:
"May 2021 showed credit transferred from Simplicity of £2000.  British Gas continued to take £184 per month.  Actual usage about 9000 kWh higher than estimated so, after adjusting for usage, British Gas owe me about £2000."
If they're showing a credit balance, but their estimated usage is 9000KWh *less* than what you've actually used, surely that would reduce the amount the account was in balance?

Ekuuleus

May 2021 showed credit transferred from Simplicity of £2000

That was may and they continued taking £184 per month.  *After* taking account of the higher usage it's over £2000 Apr 2022.