Estate Rentcharge - How long does it take to get Deed of Variation done?

ftb2024

Did your sale go through 

jamie_

I've been searching for an answer for how long it takes to change the deed of variation to include the 2 months notice. But i cannot seem to find the answer. I can understand it taking a variable amount for different situations but it surely is something they can agree to change if it has been a requirement for years now.

OP, did you manage to get yours done?

I put in my offer on end of May 2024. All of the searches and everything was done by end of June. On 9th of july it was requested to do the change to Deed of Variation to include the 2 months notice. My solicitor is not getting any updates from the seller's solicitor. I have tried to get the selling estate agent to give me information of where it's at but no luck. They keep dodging my calls.
It's now closing in to 3 months since we have requested this change and no update. I don't know how much longer I can wait. If i knew the reasons why it's delayed or if they did my DoV and say the chain house is taking longer, I'd be okay with waiting a bit longer. 
This house is fantastic but it has so many red flags due to the yearly charge, road not adopted by local authority ...and this change of DoV taking forever. Selling agents giving wrong information and dodging my calls...
If I give up on the house I'll lose on the solicitor and conveyancing fees so I'd rather avoid that.
Any advice is appreciated.

eddddy

jamie_ said:

I've been searching for an answer for how long it takes to change the deed of variation to include the 2 months notice. But i cannot seem to find the answer. I can understand it taking a variable amount for different situations but it surely is something they can agree to change if it has been a requirement for years now.

There's no set answer to that question.

Essentially, you're asking a stranger to do you a favour.  (i.e. You're asking the rent charge owner to agree to a Deed of Variation.)

That Deed of Variation helps you (to get a mortgage), but it doesn't help the Rent charge owner. (In fact, it makes the Rent Charge Owner slightly worse off.)

So the rent charge owner might...

• Say "yes" immediately
• Say "no" immediately
• Take weeks or months to decide whether to say "yes" or "no".

If they say "yes", they might ask their Solicitor to write a Deed of Variation immediately, or they might take weeks or months to get around to it.

There might even be arguments about what fee the rent charge owner should be paid for this - which is stopping progress.
 

Perhaps the best way forward is if you ask the seller to phone the rent charge owner, to see if they can find out what's happening.

jamie_

eddddy

There might even be arguments about what fee the rent charge owner should be paid for this - which is stopping progress.
 

Perhaps the best way forward is if you ask the seller to phone the rent charge owner, to see if they can find out what's happening.

They told me the fees for deed of variation and getting myself to be a member of the company, which was around £666 total. But they didn't mention a fee for changing the deed of variation to include the 2 months notice. I'd be happy to pay probably something up to £1000 for it to get changed so we can move forward. 

I am trying to get the seller agent to give me updates and information on what is happening but they dodge my call or say we will get back to you and never call until I do. I don't have a direct way to contact the seller himself other than maybe showing up at his house which would be very rude.

I appreciate the reply. I think in the meantime I'll start looking for another house and bite the bullet if I find anything decent.

RAS

jamie_ said:

I appreciate the reply. I think in the meantime I'll start looking for another house and bite the bullet if I find anything decent.

And tell the seller's agent that you are doing this and why. 

Firstly, it's polite. Second if they find out otherwise you could look dodgy. And it might out some pressure on the seller to speak to their rent charge owner.

eddddy

jamie_ said:

I am trying to get the seller agent to give me updates and information on what is happening but they dodge my call or say we will get back to you and never call until I do. I don't have a direct way to contact the seller himself other than maybe showing up at his house which would be very rude.

Are you pretty sure that both the estate agent and the seller understand the precise problem that is holding you up?

i.e. Have you said to the estate agent something like:

"In order to get a mortgage, my mortgage lender requires a Deed of Variation which changes the notice period that XYZ (the rent charge owner) gives to the mortgage lender to 2 months.

The seller's solicitor asked XYZ for this Deed of Variation in July 2024.

Can you ask the seller to phone XYZ, to ask if they have received this request? If they have received the request, do they agree to it? If they agree to it, when will they be able to prepare the Deed of Variation"?


(FWIW, I wouldn't describe this as 'changing a Deed of Variation', I would describe this as 'providing a new Deed of Variation which changes the notice period' - but that's not really too important.)



Edit to add...

Is the estate agent a 'traditional' estate agent who gets paid on completion? If so, this is the kind of issue they should focus on progressing. So that they get their fee.

But if they are an online estate agent, or similar, who gets paid in advance - they'll have no motivation to move this forward.

Olinda99

I would be also annoyed at the estate agent for not being upfront on the details that there was an estate charge in the beginning 

they may say they did not know but what they should have asked a vendor when preparing the details. I wonder if they had a duty to put this in the details as important information.

Worth a complaint ?

jamie_

RAS said:

jamie_ said:

I appreciate the reply. I think in the meantime I'll start looking for another house and bite the bullet if I find anything decent.

And tell the seller's agent that you are doing this and why. 

Firstly, it's polite. Second if they find out otherwise you could look dodgy. And it might out some pressure on the seller to speak to their rent charge owner.

I have told them (last week) that if this doesn't get sorted soon I'll look for another house, latest 5th of November when my mortgage offer expires. 

eddddy said:

jamie_ said:

I am trying to get the seller agent to give me updates and information on what is happening but they dodge my call or say we will get back to you and never call until I do. I don't have a direct way to contact the seller himself other than maybe showing up at his house which would be very rude.

Are you pretty sure that both the estate agent and the seller understand the precise problem that is holding you up?

i.e. Have you said to the estate agent something like:

"In order to get a mortgage, my mortgage lender requires a Deed of Variation which changes the notice period that XYZ (the rent charge owner) gives to the mortgage lender to 2 months.

The seller's solicitor asked XYZ for this Deed of Variation in July 2024.

Can you ask the seller to phone XYZ, to ask if they have received this request? If they have received the request, do they agree to it? If they agree to it, when will they be able to prepare the Deed of Variation"?


(FWIW, I wouldn't describe this as 'changing a Deed of Variation', I would describe this as 'providing a new Deed of Variation which changes the notice period' - but that's not really too important.)



Edit to add...

Is the estate agent a 'traditional' estate agent who gets paid on completion? If so, this is the kind of issue they should focus on progressing. So that they get their fee.

But if they are an online estate agent, or similar, who gets paid in advance - they'll have no motivation to move this forward.

I believe they are a "traditional" estate agency and they are local. I only ever talked with them on the phone. I assume they get the fee on completion which is why it's baffling they are not trying harder to push for the sale to get sorted.

I have been calling selling agent dealing with this house about every 2 weeks since I knew what's holding it up. Every time she'd say: I'll get back to you. But she wouldn't. Finally 3 weeks ago she does call me. She told me my purchase is all in order and we are just waiting on the deed of variation for the house the seller is purchasing next. But that wasn't entirely correct as i was(still am) waiting on the deed of variation on the house i am purchasing. I asked her to go back to the seller's solicitor and confirm this. My solicitor also confirmed we are still waiting.

Last week i was told she doesn't work there anymore after several calls trying to get a hold of her. I was told the new selling agent will contact me. She didn't either. I managed to get her on a call and i told her what happened. She did confirm we are waiting on the deed of covenant from her notes, nothing else. I requested to find out what's happening  with my deed of variation and what else is there holding up the sale. That's when i made the threat of walking away too. She was supposed to call me on Monday and again, she didn't.
I understand they may be super busy and dealing with many properties. So i always try to give them time to call me back...
Next time i manage to talk with her, i will try to say it like you told me. I've been meaning to try do this via email so there's a record of it, but i don't have a direct email for communication.

Olinda99 said:

I would be also annoyed at the estate agent for not being upfront on the details that there was an estate charge in the beginning 

they may say they did not know but what they should have asked a vendor when preparing the details. I wonder if they had a duty to put this in the details as important information.

Worth a complaint ?

I do wonder the same. Shouldn't this be disclosed? I didn't find out about it until half way through the searches.  The road isn't adopted by the local authority, which is why there is this maintenance charge. It's £93 a year so i thought no big deal. Until i found out about more fees, potential issues if council does adopt the road...
If the extra charge not being disclosed isn't worth a complaint, them dodging my calls constantly definitely is.

jamie_

I have an update. They didn't send the deed of variation to be signed to the managing company. They were just refusing to do so until sales completion and lying to me. I managed to find out after several threats and now we have an agreed completion date. But they still haven't sent us the deed signed. So hopefully it will get sorted in the next 2 weeks.