Part of my land has become unregistered !

trapbarn

I want to gain title to very small but important piece of unregistered land. It measures a mere  1.8m x 3.6m. It is located between two titles (lets call them A & that were created around 150 years ago. I queried Land Registry in 2004 about this piece of land and they confirmed it was unregistered. 

I have now come into possession a very old title plan for title “A” which I own. This is a hand drawn plan with a scale of 1 inch = 41.66 feet and I guess it must be between 50 and 150 years old. This old plan does not show the small area between A and B at all. It clearly shows “A” extending right up to “B”. 

Located on this small piece of land, is the ruin of an very old brick shed. The roof fell in decades ago and the ground inside the wall is heaped with rubble. Rumour has it that it was a stable for a donkey. 

What appears to have happened is that, around say 100 years ago, this shed was built on title “A” but could possibly have been built by the owner of title B. We  also don’t know who used it. What we do know is that the modern Land Registry plans for the area attributed the ownership to nobody because the shed remains were obviously a ruin and no one claimed it. 

I acquired title “A” 18 years ago from my late mother who owned it for the previous 40 years. The owner of title “B” acquired it 3 years ago and now wants to extend his building to cover the unregistered small plot. 

To further complicate things, title B has right of access over the land on title A because the building on B has no cartilage. There is no fence or barrier between A and B. 

So the big question is can I possibly stand any chance of persuading Land Registry to restore the plot to me?

user1977

Are you sure it's actually "become unregistered" and it's not just being confused by the underlying OS maps being updated? I would expect the LR boundaries to remain the same even if mapped boundaries shift (or disappear).

pumas

Can't resist, did building on B fall down through lack of cartilage? (Curtilage)

GDB2222

How can the owner of Plot B lay claim to this land at all? 

According to you, it's not on either of the LR plans. It's all unfenced, so the owner of plot B can't claim adverse possession.

IIRC, this is a conservation area, so isn't the collapsed ruin a liability, rather than an asset, anyway?


I'm sorry, but I can't answer the question you originally asked. There is a Land Registry rep on this board, and he probably knows.

trapbarn

user1977 said:

Are you sure it's actually "become unregistered" and it's not just being confused by the underlying OS maps being updated? I would expect the LR boundaries to remain the same even if mapped boundaries shift (or disappear).

I guess it became unregistered  following the supersession of old paper map documents by the more modern arrangements which are presumably based on Ordnance Survey maps and/or satellite imagery.
So when the last verification took place on-site, they found this ruin  and could not attribute it to either because there was no one there to verify. This is because site A has only garages on it and site B is a storage building.

trapbarn

GDB2222 said:

How can the owner of Plot B lay claim to this land at all? 

According to you, it's not on either of the LR plans. It's all unfenced, so the owner of plot B can't claim adverse possession.

IIRC, this is a conservation area, so isn't the collapsed ruin a liability, rather than an asset, anyway?


I'm sorry, but I can't answer the question you originally asked. There is a Land Registry rep on this board, and he probably knows.

He is de facto laying claim to it because he has submitted a  planning application for an extension that covers this small piece of land plus a bit more of mine.  And oddly enough, one is able to submit a planning application without owning all the land.
The only thing in his favour is that the ruin is hard up against his building . I down loaded his title plan from LR and it definitely does not show it on his plan.

He had previously tried an even greater land grab on a previous application by signing a false "Declaration A". He did so presumably on the basis that his right of access gave him that right. He made other declarations on his application which have since been exposed as untruthful. I'm not xenophobic but he originates from another continent where different standards apply.

I am fairly sure he does not know it is unregistered  but as soon as I apply to LR he will be alerted because he is adjacent. 

Slithery

trapbarn said:

And oddly enough, one is able to submit a planning application without owning all the land.

Not odd at all. I could submit a planning permission application to build a block of flats in the grounds of Buckingham Palace if I wanted to.

Planning permission and land ownership are completely different legal matters, gaining PP doesn't then mean that you have a legal right to build.

GDB2222

Slithery said:

trapbarn said:

And oddly enough, one is able to submit a planning application without owning all the land.

Not odd at all. I could submit a planning permission application to build a block of flats in the grounds of Buckingham Palace if I wanted to.

Planning permission and land ownership are completely different legal matters, gaining PP doesn't then mean that you have a legal right to build.

That's not 100% of the story. If you apply for PP on someone else's land, IIRC, you have to inform them and there's a certificate to sign. 

Slinky

Why don't you write to him noting his application for PP, but pointing out that he doesn't own the land, enclosing a copy of your very old title map?

GDB2222

@trapbarn You can view the planning application online. Section 11 needs to include the relevant ownership certificate. What does it say?

If it is a false certificate, you should contact the planning officer dealing with the case, and say that you own the land. 

If the certificate is false, the planning authority has no option but to reject the application. The problem for you is that it is difficult to show that you own the land. However, it is even harder for the applicant to show that he does. So, I think the application has to be turned down.

The standard PP form is here, although you can obviously see the completed version easily. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710889/Form001_england_en__2_.pdf

trapbarn

Slinky said:

Why don't you write to him noting his application for PP, but pointing out that he doesn't own the land, enclosing a copy of your very old title map?

I did that last year and reminded him that he had right of access only.  No reply!.

This guy does not play by the rules.  He converted a workshop into a dwelling without even applying for PP. He the applied when neighbours complained when  he let it out as a rental property. The application was rejected twice. The Planning issued an enforcement notice to undo the work. He then appealed and it went to the national Planning Inspectorate. They threw out his appeal. But it is still let out. He had lied and cheated repeatedly and I wouldn't put anything past him