Death benefits on a reassure pension.

gregspalding

Hello, I hope some of you can help. 
My father passed away last October. I have been trying to get his pensions sorted. He had 2 private pensions with Just, and Reassure. 
Just paid out a lump sum and a monthly payment to my mum within weeks. I followed the steps for the claim to Reassure, and after a few weeks, the wrote back to ask for documentation. I provided that, then the wrote back saying that had made a 'discretionary' decision to pay the full amount of £14800 to my Mum. Then nothing for a few weeks. The another letter, saying they had to investigate the claim, as my Dad was bankrupt in 1994. Now we've had another letter, saying they have passed the claim to Gowling WLG (a law firm). 
This is causing me, and more so, my Mum, a lot of stress.
As far as I know, the only reason for them not to pay would be in the bankruptcy was still in effect, but it ended in 2001. Are they just being difficult on purpose? 

Marcon

gregspalding said:

Hello, I hope some of you can help. 
My father passed away last October. I have been trying to get his pensions sorted. He had 2 private pensions with Just, and Reassure. 
Just paid out a lump sum and a monthly payment to my mum within weeks. I followed the steps for the claim to Reassure, and after a few weeks, the wrote back to ask for documentation. I provided that, then the wrote back saying that had made a 'discretionary' decision to pay the full amount of £14800 to my Mum. Then nothing for a few weeks. The another letter, saying they had to investigate the claim, as my Dad was bankrupt in 1994. Now we've had another letter, saying they have passed the claim to Gowling WLG (a law firm). 
This is causing me, and more so, my Mum, a lot of stress.
As far as I know, the only reason for them not to pay would be in the bankruptcy was still in effect, but it ended in 2001. Are they just being difficult on purpose? 

I can fully understand why you and your mum must feel they are being awkward - but think they are being ultra cautious. I suspect these are different types of pension - Just was an annuity (posh word for pension!) with a spouse's pension; Reassure a personal pension. The fact it's been passed to Gowling probably sounds scary, but hopefully should speed up a resolution (they are well known as pensions legal specialists).

gregspalding

That's very help, thank you so much.

dunstonh

then the wrote back saying that had made a 'discretionary' decision to pay the full amount of £14800 to my Mum. 

This suggests there was no expression of wish noted and it needed to go to the trustees for a decision.  Once the trustees make their decision, it is passed back to the administrators to then carry out final checks.....

Then nothing for a few weeks. The another letter, saying they had to investigate the claim, as my Dad was bankrupt in 1994. Now we've had another letter, saying they have passed the claim to Gowling WLG (a law firm). 

This would suggest that the ReAssure pension is an older one from before 1994.     Just were not around back then so they would not be captured by that.  Checks would have been carried out when the pension transferred to Just.

Are they just being difficult on purpose? 

No.  They have a process to go through.  Once something is found, it needs to be investigated and the providers will usually use third party companies in areas like this.  It adds a delay but they cannot circumvent it.

gregspalding

Follow up. I've not heard from ReAssure or Gowrings, so i called ReAssure today, only to be told that the policy was paid to Gowrings, because of a bankruptcy in 1994! As far as I know, all debts were cleared from that bankruptcy, so how Gowrings have an interest in it, I have no idea. So j spoke to Gowrings, and they have said that the amount didn't cover the debt, but wouldn't tell me who, or what, the debt was relates to. 
Does this sound reasonable?? I was under the impression that once the bankruptcy had ended, if all debts were clear, then there would be no further interests. If there was a claiment, why have they not come forward in the last 28 years?? 
My mum is going to be devastated, she was reliant on that death benefit. 😢

JoeCrystal

Sorry to hear that. I did some googling and it looks like since the pension scheme predated 2000, there was a lot less protection and it could be the case that they can still have claims on the assets. Note the information on Aegon linked here:
https://www.aegon.co.uk/support/faq/pension-technical/pensions-and-bankruptcy-faq.html

Under the section referring to What about bankruptcy petitions made before 29 May 2000?

If the petition for bankruptcy was made before 29 May 2000, the position depends on the circumstances of each case. Individuals petitioned for bankruptcy before that date will, in the vast majority of cases, have had their bankruptcy discharged after three years. However, it may still be possible for their trustee to claim benefits coming into payment now from pension funds which existed at the time the individual was made bankrupt.

If the funds were in an approved occupational pension scheme, they are likely to be protected from claims by the trustee. Many approved occupational pension schemes contained a forfeiture clause under which, if a member became bankrupt, benefits were forfeited; consequently, there was nothing for the trustee to claim. Forfeited benefits fell to the scheme trustees to be paid at their discretion and they could choose to pay benefits on retirement to the member or to the member’s dependants.

Some approved personal pension schemes also contained a forfeiture clause which operated in a similar way. If there was no such clause, the pension funds formed part of the bankruptcy estate and benefits payable from those funds could be claimed by the trustee.

Individual contracts, such as S226 retirement annuity contracts and S32 buy-out policies, did not contain a forfeiture clause. As they are individual contracts, there are no scheme trustees to exercise the discretion.

Where pension funds form part of the bankruptcy estate, the trustee can generally only claim the benefits to which the member was entitled, and at the age at which the member could take them.

It might be worth checking the bankruptcy paperworks if you still got them.

dunstonh

gregspalding said:

Follow up. I've not heard from ReAssure or Gowrings, so i called ReAssure today, only to be told that the policy was paid to Gowrings, because of a bankruptcy in 1994! As far as I know, all debts were cleared from that bankruptcy, so how Gowrings have an interest in it, I have no idea. So j spoke to Gowrings, and they have said that the amount didn't cover the debt, but wouldn't tell me who, or what, the debt was relates to. 
Does this sound reasonable?? I was under the impression that once the bankruptcy had ended, if all debts were clear, then there would be no further interests. 

If all debts were paid IN FULL then any excess should go to the beneficiary.

If debts were paid in part and the creditors were left out of pocket then any pre-bankruptcy asset that later becomes available should go to the OR and the OR should distribute it to the creditors.

Just because the bankrupt was discharged does not mean the debts no longer exist.  Post discharge assets cannot be used against them but pre-discharge assets can.

If there was a claiment, why have they not come forward in the last 28 years??

Because all available assets would have been distributed and they just need to sit back and wait for the pension to become available.

My mum is going to be devastated, she was reliant on that death benefit. 😢

It is worth remembering that a bankruptcy leaves creditors unpaid and they could be small companies with directors with spouses and children who had to suffer financially due to non-payment of bills.  Some bankruptcies cause others to go bankrupt.    So, those creditors could have been reliant on that money.