Internal Support Wall

kalialba

I have lived in this house for 29 years, the wall between the sitting room and dining room has been knocked down to create 1 big through room. This was done before I bought the house, it was not raised as an issue on my survey 29 years ago and currently there are no problems no sign of damage or cracking etc.

Fast forward, recently put the house up for sale so have had an offer and buyer has had a survey. The surveyor is saying this is a support wall and there should be a building regs certificate to show that an rsj beam was fitted.

Obviously I don't have anything to show when this was done, I have no idea if an rsj has been fitted.

Advice needed on how to progress and resolve this. I obviously don't want the wall to be broken in to to check it. I can't believe it has no evidence of structural damage after 29 years if it has not been done correctly. Building regs will obviously have changed over the years but I need to know that the structure is safe. Would a builder be able to confirm?

stuart45

An SE, rather than a builder. Needs the bearing ends exposed. Another way is indemnity policy. Depends on what the buyer will take. Some people want an assurance that it's safe.

grumbler

There is no way of removing the entire wall without adding a beam instead. The question is whether this beam is strong enough. Typically, it's a structural engineer calculations and building control checking that  they were followed.

Did you contact your local council to find out if they have any documents for this?

GDB2222

stuart45 said:

An SE, rather than a builder. Needs the bearing ends exposed. Another way is indemnity policy. Depends on what the buyer will take. Some people want an assurance that it's safe.

I sympathise with the idea of wanting to know it’s safe. An indemnity policy won’t help if the house has just collapsed on top of you. 

Chipping a bit off the plaster to expose the beam is not ideal, but it’s probably not as destructive as the OP fears. How much can usually be seen by lifting flooring upstairs?

stuart45

Agree that the policy is really a waste of paper, but seems to keep some people happy.
Most SE's that I know want to see the size of steel, amount of bearing, what it's sitting on e.g. Padstone, and materials used for pier.
They would normally get a builder to expose the ends and make good later.
A lot depends on the market. Sellers market and they just look for another buyer. Buyers market and people are more likely to do this 

kalialba

Thanks for all the responses. I have not contacted the council so will investigate that. It wouldn't be easy to lift flooring upstairs as have had oak flooring fitted (I believe it is nailed at the side of the boards but don't know for sure)

I can't believe it was not raised in my survey 29 years back and as I say, there is no sign of cracking or movement..I guess if I need a SE I will have to go down that route as this isn't going away. 

stuart45

The chances are that the steel is fine and everything is good.
However the fact that something has been OK for 29 years or more and stood the test of time doesn't mean 100% that it's been done properly.
I have known people to spike 2 8x2's together for a beam. It lasted for years without any movement until the end in the exterior solid wall rotted and then the problems started.
The Victorians used timber beams for shop fronts and bays, and someone buying the property 50years after the build might have thought it's been done for all this time no problem, but 10years later they have a big job on their hands.

Section62

grumbler said:

There is no way of removing the entire wall without adding a beam instead.

I've seen some examples where the 'builder' believed they could achieve this without the use of a beam.

As stuart45 says - there are ways that a supporting wall can be removed which is fine to start with, but at some point in the future the building owner will have a big bill to contend with to put things right.  I wouldn't be happy buying a house on the basis "it hasn't fallen down yet so must be Ok".

Woolsery

kalialba said:

Thanks for all the responses. I have not contacted the council so will investigate that.

I can't believe it was not raised in my survey 29 years back and as I say, there is no sign of cracking or movement..I guess if I need a SE I will have to go down that route as this isn't going away. 

If you contact the council about this specifically, you will not be able to go down indemnity insurance route, even though enforcement isn't at all likely for any breach of the regs then pertaining. You could probably ask about any docs they hold for the property or look on their web site. My council has uploaded a lot of historic permissions/ signings off etc.

People are more cautious today than they were in the 90s, and it could be that there is lots of extra work created by making doubly sure about everything!

Section62

Woolsery said:

kalialba said:

Thanks for all the responses. I have not contacted the council so will investigate that.

I can't believe it was not raised in my survey 29 years back and as I say, there is no sign of cracking or movement..I guess if I need a SE I will have to go down that route as this isn't going away. 

If you contact the council about this specifically, you will not be able to go down indemnity insurance route, even though enforcement isn't at all likely for any breach of the regs then pertaining.

Action could still be taken if the structure is deemed to be dangerous.

Woolsery said:

People are more cautious today than they were in the 90s....

Which is a good thing of course.

kalialba

I did look on the council web site and nothing shown but it does say records only reliable from July 2002 so this is not far enough back. I have been in the house since Jan 1993 so the work must have been before then.

I think the buyer is receptive to indemnity insurance however she wants to know that the structure is safe which is completely  understandable. It has just come as a bit of a shock for me.

I just feel totally clueless about the situation but from the responses it looks like I will have to get it checked by a SE. Would this be my best option?