Property left partially in trust to me...very confused about how works

DerbyBorn7

Thanks Ras. I have a solicitor calling me today hopefully

DerbyBorn7

So spent time time with probate / wills / trust lawyer.

All is clear.

Shares fixed,  not changeable.  The absolute only way is winding up (if SM wanted to claim a share back )... then assets have go to me and trust ends. 

SM Proposal reviewed and SM was trying to lead me into using my released assets when it winds up...but failed to tell me I even had a choice and fool me into thinking those assets released after, she still has a life interest, to use to invest with her new 3rd party.

If not wound up...trust carries on, shares fixed, so SM is not able to claw back gift (or the nonsense figures given to smoke screen getting it back  ). 

 if the trust rolls over and not wound up, and she tries to then buy with new husband , the new 3rd party presents a risk to the trust...so the courts would likely look at this that the trustees were not acting in the Beneficiary's interest (me and kids).

So her proposal to wind up.  All emotions aside...that share adjustment she wants can only happen if wound up, so unless i bargain with an offer, she might just run with the trust .

If she doesn't accept the wind up and part ways and trust rolls over with 3rd party on new deeds...I will 10000% consider action, IE self interest/ self dealing etc...as a quasi new agreement with 3rd party owner isn't best interests of beneficiaries....

I can also smell here that aunt is on the very line of breach of trust....allowing her interest more over mine...however....it could be DM has lied to aunt and aunt thought it was rolling over,  being revised...but really it's a wind up of it...disguised as a revise...and coerciing me and failing to tell me I have a choice to reinvest after wind up.


Will update once I play my offer and reveal I know the gigs up, yes, i might give gift back...but wind up is ONLY way he request can happen, I feel quite betrayed here but I can't see a way of not having to return it without winding up...as she wants it...but also wants life interest at same time.  If I say wind up, and no gift back....I doubt she'll be seen again and will move it...and all that alternative self dealing self interest 3rd party stuff would be too costly legal wise (but i will if it comes to it)....so the wind up offer seems best to get this done.

What a mess. Glad I got a lawyer. Sharing all this in case it helps anyone else caught up in such mess.

Those of you who said you smell a rat were right.

RAS

Please speak again to your aunt and explain to her directly. And suggest she visit a lawyer herself. Not sure there might not now be a conflict of interest if she tried to see the one you met? Would save re-explaining everything.

DerbyBorn7

Thanks Ras.

Yes going to speak with aunt to make aware of major issues on table and say to speak to lawyer, as not winding up legitimately and all walking away , is now shrouded in problems for her .

It's very clear to me now the 'sleight of hand ' at play. And she's betraying me, my dad and my kids with this. 

SM has probably paid a solicitor to draft a document to get consent to wind up AND then direct my assets into her new house . As she presured me to send ID to get it in place and send it her, in SM words end the trust at dad's,  to begin new trust at new big house. So SM has built a house of cards . Of course. No ID was sent and not a grain of agreement exists in writing or verbally (but on multiple occasions SM has fished for that, I person, in email and in whatsapp). SM will no doubt want to have central  control of both signed consent to wind and consent to invest documents , all in hand In one place for her solicitor,  so she can then make this move and entirely control the situation. 

I also suspect SM has had legal advice and due to self dealing and the 'issues' on the trust...she MUST end the trust to be with 3rd party husband in new big place...and is therefore conning me to join the club so she can avoid the breaches and still live using the money.

SM sense of entitlement is so big she feels she can control assets of others for her own gain....assets dad left me and kids... can't make this sh*t up. !

Her sale / buy will collapse, as I will NOT invest...

martinbainbridge1975

DerbyBorn7 said:

Thanks Ras.

Yes going to speak with aunt to make aware of major issues on table and say to speak to lawyer, as not winding up legitimately and all walking away , is now shrouded in problems for her .

It's very clear to me now the 'sleight of hand ' at play. And she's betraying me, my dad and my kids with this. 

SM has probably paid a solicitor to draft a document to get consent to wind up AND then direct my assets into her new house . As she presured me to send ID to get it in place and send it her, in SM words end the trust at dad's,  to begin new trust at new big house. So SM has built a house of cards . Of course. No ID was sent and not a grain of agreement exists in writing or verbally (but on multiple occasions SM has fished for that, I person, in email and in whatsapp). SM will no doubt want to have central  control of both signed consent to wind and consent to invest documents , all in hand In one place for her solicitor,  so she can then make this move and entirely control the situation. 

I also suspect SM has had legal advice and due to self dealing and the 'issues' on the trust...she MUST end the trust to be with 3rd party husband in new big place...and is therefore conning me to join the club so she can avoid the breaches and still live using the money.

SM sense of entitlement is so big she feels she can control assets of others for her own gain....assets dad left me and kids... can't make this sh*t up. !

Her sale / buy will collapse, as I will NOT invest...

I read your first post and my first thought was I hope you get legal advise as this could get very very messy.

Keep all the emails / whatsapps and don't get into discussions with her.  Let the legal professionals deal with matters on your behalf.

SusieT

I am so pleased that you got advice from a specialist, and (although sad that people were proved right) that it was well worth you gettting it. It is clear from what you were told that the trust has done a very good job of protecting your and your childrens interest in this. I do hope that you are able to get things sorted by talking with you step mother and aunt so that even if you are not close, there is no family fall out

GDB2222

What about getting the solicitor to write to both trustees?

if you have to go to court to sort this out, that will cost tens of thousands of pounds in legal fees. On the other hand, a letter now from the solicitor may well head off any trouble, and that will be vastly cheaper for you.

DerbyBorn7

I am meeting step mum to say i do not and will not invest with her and new husband,

Step mum is in a catch 22 -  because to get back a legal gift, she would need it wound up, thats the only option, if wound up before a move, assetts to be and I gift...

the other more wonky scenario is this.

If SM and aunt do move the trust to the bigger property, the trust still owns its true share - not reduced. So , as SM wants the share reduced. the only way to do that would be to wind up the trust - so i then appear on the deeds, but of course owning a smaller share (as the gift would be deducted). I could refuse a smaller share, but, SM could then not agree to wind up and 30 years could fly by.

however, once trust is over / ended, I would be legal owner of the share,so i would pull out, IE apply to the court to force sale to get my share out as soon as possible.

with this latter - most undesirable situation - how easy is it to force a sale? as i would do it the moment I was on the deeds....

When i talk with SM, I will make clear that is what I would do, so it might prompt her to wind up now before the move, and part ways as I can gift... the other version to force sale, is long winded - but would defeat the object of her getting the new house in the first place. But I realise today this could be something to take place.

I am also considering the lines of breach of trust - as I have emails from SM (trustee) which are defintley not carrying out true trustee duties - but i will put that sh*t show on the back burner for now. thats for if things really get more tricky.

any knowledge of forcing a sale of of a property to obtain your own share?

Titus_Wadd

Just spend the money to have your solicitor write to the SM and/or your Aunt; the solicitor will explain it more clearly, will set out your rights and the expected outcome without confusing and unhelpful other scenarios muddying the water for everyone.  It'll be money well spent.

GDB2222

DerbyBorn7 said:

I am meeting step mum to say i do not and will not invest with her and new husband,

Step mum is in a catch 22 -  because to get back a legal gift, she would need it wound up, thats the only option, if wound up before a move, assetts to be and I gift...

the other more wonky scenario is this.

If SM and aunt do move the trust to the bigger property, the trust still owns its true share - not reduced. So , as SM wants the share reduced. the only way to do that would be to wind up the trust - so i then appear on the deeds, but of course owning a smaller share (as the gift would be deducted). I could refuse a smaller share, but, SM could then not agree to wind up and 30 years could fly by.

however, once trust is over / ended, I would be legal owner of the share,so i would pull out, IE apply to the court to force sale to get my share out as soon as possible.

with this latter - most undesirable situation - how easy is it to force a sale? as i would do it the moment I was on the deeds....

When i talk with SM, I will make clear that is what I would do, so it might prompt her to wind up now before the move, and part ways as I can gift... the other version to force sale, is long winded - but would defeat the object of her getting the new house in the first place. But I realise today this could be something to take place.

I am also considering the lines of breach of trust - as I have emails from SM (trustee) which are defintley not carrying out true trustee duties - but i will put that sh*t show on the back burner for now. thats for if things really get more tricky.

any knowledge of forcing a sale of of a property to obtain your own share?

To take a breach of trust case to the High Court will cost tens of thousands. Even if you win and are awarded costs, you will be out of pockets for thousands of Pounds. 

I'm a bit perplexed why you don't take the advice you have been asking for?