Appeal rejected - even though I paid for a ticket?

reeceg353

Hi all, 

I received a parking charge from Euro Car Parks for apparently not paying for a ticket; when we did? 

This happened a month ago, so I have binned the actual paper ticket but I have my bank statement for proof that I paid £1.80 for the correct duration (all double checked)

I emailed this screenshot of my bank statement to euro car parks but they’ve rejected saying:

Please be advised that no transaction was located matching the details you have provided us with. Please see attached report showing that there is no transaction made on 26/02/2022 with card ending 3980. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

 According to the clearly displayed tariff drivers are allowed 30 Minutes free parking – drivers wishing to stay longer than the free period are able to purchase extra time at the machines on site.

 Your vehicle entered at 18:31:33 and exited at 20:27:07 – a total stay of 1 hour and 56 minutes – therefore a payment of £1.80 would have been required

 As you did not purchase a pay and display ticket to cover the entire duration of your stay, I can confirm that the notice has been issued correctly and will remain payable

— 

I have attached the photo of my bank statement clearly showing payment on the date and for the correct money??

 

Do I go to POPLA now? 

Fruitcake

What happened when you complained to the landowner? This is always Plan A.

If Plan A fails, and you have been provided with a PoPLA code, then yes, appeal to PoPLA using all the points available to you from the 3rd post of the NEWBIES Announcement.

I suspect either the driver made a typo when they entered their VRM, or the pay machine was faulty and the PPC's dodgy equipment failed to match it with the ANPR system.
BPA members are required to offer a discount to £20 if a typo occurs. Failing to offer it is a CoP failure, which should feature as one of your many appeal points to PoPLA.

Post your draft here for checking before you submit it.

Was the driver identified in your initial appeal?

reeceg353

Hi there,

Thanks for the quick response.

I refrained from accepting/mentioning who the driver was at the time, the ticket is issued to the "Keeper of the vehicle". 

I haven't contacted the landowner as of yet, I can do that today?

--

We are making an appeal to POPLA because we have received a Parking Charge notice for the Driver of a vehicle registered to my address,  with car registration LR21 ***.

Euro Car Parks (to be known as ECP) have issued a full parking charge of £100 with a discount of £60 if paid within 14 days.

The driver of the vehicle in the time of question, had clearly displayed a parking ticket on the front of dashboard inside of the car on the passenger side. 

As any normal person would, once leaving the premises the driver at the time discarded the parking receipt/ticket. To our astonishment, we received a Parking charge stating we had not paid the correct fee for the duration of the stay. We strongly contest this.

ECP state that the fee of £1.80 was not paid, yet the evidence that we give from a bank statement clearly states that £1.80 had left the bank account on the specific date in question (26th Feb 2022). 

Coupon-mad

Stop.  You have a whole month to do POPLA.  Complain to the landowner first and contact the payment company (pay by phone? Ringgo?)  to check the payee and location code details.

You need those details emailed or texted to you.  Not over the phone because you need evidence for POPLA..

Is there no £1.80 payment on the machine log I assume they attached, that might be yours?  If so then it could likely be a VRM keying error.

reeceg353

Hi again,

How do I find out who owns the land? The county council page says they do not own the car-park that I parked in (Meadows Surface)? It says ECP own them?

Meadows Surface car park

There are four car parks in Chelmsford called the Meadows. We own two of them, but we do not own:

• Q-Park Meadows Multi-Storey Car Park, which is next to the shopping centre and opposite the Odeon cinema
• Euro Car Parks Meadows Surface, which is in Springfield Road and High Bridge Road

In regards to payment, I paid via card at the machine and not through an app

Coupon-mad

Ask your bank for data showing the payee.  Also visit the site to take photos of the machine snd signs.  Any chance you paid the Council instead at a street machine?.  

Is there a £1.80 payment on ECP's log?

Fruitcake

You need to use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES for a PoPLA appeal. These would normally include some or all of the following,

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges in their own name
Inadequate signage
BPA failures *
Non PoFA compliant NTK
PDT machine failure *

* The operator should have used their "fuzzy logic" to search machine records to look for a near miss registration mark. Having determined that either an incorrect VRM was entered, or the the PDT machines incorrectly recorded a VRM, the charge should have been cancelled if only one digit was incorrect, or a reduced charge of £20 should have been offered if more than one digit was incorrect.
The operator is required to provide machine logs for the date in question showing a list of redacted VRMs to prove that payment was not made for a VRM with one or more incorrect characters, and that the pay machines did not record an incorrect VRM.
The operator is put to strict proof that a keying error was not made, or that the pay machine did not record an incorrect VRM.
Software to prevent the VRM of a vehicle not actually present at the time is available, and it is incumbent upon the operator to ensure such equipment is installed and working correctly. Failure to do so is a breach of the BPA CoP

Umkomaas

If you eventually have to appeal to POPLA, of late, ECP have been failing on the basis of their unsatisfactory signage. Read the last two or three pages of the POPLA Decisions Announcement for the relevant cases and check back on the posters' threads to understand their full story. There was one successful case posted just a few minutes ago that I commented on - have a read of that. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6343035/surrounding-car-parks-different-companies-monitoring-query#latest

You will need some photos of the signage at the car park - taken in the same light conditions (don't use flash - portray them as they would have been viewed on the day), which might have been fairly poor at 6:31pm on 26/02. But also get some close ups showing the actual wording on the signs. You'll need the 'best' ones (favouring you) for any POPLA appeal. 

reeceg353

Thanks for responding again.

All I know is that I paid at the machine, in the car park, the correct fee at the correct times.

I really don't understand why they've issued me a fine, is it really up to me to spend time & effort to prove I have paid, when I have paid? Is this even legal? 

In the screenshot above, it says who the recipient of the payment was; "3C_Euro CarParks" 

They money is outgoing, it came out of my account and it went to the company that are now charging me £100

It really can't be much simpler than that, can it? 

Jenni_D

Did you use tap-n-go on your phone? If yes then that often gives the recipient a substitute card number rather than your actual card number, but the transaction appears on your bank statement anyway. (e.g. my own debit card ends 2134 but appears as a virtual account number ending 7433).

If this is relevant, check in your Google/Apple Pay app for the virtual account number and get ECP to check for a transaction ending with that number. If they ask for evidence then you should be able to screenshot the Pay screen showing original and virtual numbers to show that they are linked.

Umkomaas

It's rather disappointing to note that following the advice I and others gave you on your previous entanglement with the same parking company - ECP - you didn't find the time to update the thread so that regulars could be given feedback as to whether their advice was effective. 

This isn't a one-way process. If we don't know what works, there's little point in us spending so much time here.