Permitted work form

Auti

Hello. I get contribution based esa and in the do not have to look for work group. As a calmness for me I have got into making chain maille bracelets and hanging charms. I wear the bracelets and one day a person asked me did I sell them as she wanted to buy mine (but me make it for her not from my wrist). I know that is not allowed (am very rule based) so googled which came up with permitted work - i need to buy jump rings for my calmness and I love the feel and counting them and the colours. I emailed the person who helped me in the job centre and he said it was a good idea as it would help me manage everyday life BUT I don’t understand the forms as it says employer, hours working, payslips and so on…. I might sell one a month if that I might not sell any and it takes me random time to make as it is hobby and might be an hour a day and I just dont know. Please can someone help me work this out.

marcia_

 Personally i don't feel this is work you describe. If only making 1 or 2 a week and assuming not making a lot of money it sounds like a hobby. 

calcotti

marcia_ said:

 Personally i don't feel this is work you describe. If only making 1 or 2 a week and assuming not making a lot of money it sounds like a hobby. 

Agreed - it's de minimis.

Auti

calcotti said:

marcia_ said:

 Personally i don't feel this is work you describe. If only making 1 or 2 a week and assuming not making a lot of money it sounds like a hobby. 

Agreed - it's de minimis.

Sorry what is de minimis? It says on ESA that I must not do any work nor receive any money and that if I wish to do anything other than what you are allowed to do on ESA (housework, care for dependant) you must get permission or you can be in trouble. I cannot afford to lose my ESA and it just all confuses me. I would like to sell a bracelet so I can afford more rings to keep me calm. It is a muddle.
 Thank you for all responses it is appreciated.

Auti

How would I fill in the form - sorry meant to add it to my reply.

calcotti

Auti said: Sorry what is de minimis?

See guidance for new style ESA

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/959415/admv3.pdf

V3019 Negligible work is considered under a general principle that the law is not concerned with trivialities. This principle is called “de minimis”. Negligible amounts of work can be disregarded before the specific rules are applied so that the claimant is not regarded as working on the day or days in question.

V3020 Whether work on part of a day is negligible depends on its proportion to the normal working hours, the type of work and the effort required in relation to full normal duties1. When deciding if work is “de minimis”, the DM should consider the relevant case law.

If you are on the old contribution based ESA see

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1065463/dmgch41.pdf

41145 Negligible work is considered under a general principle that the law is not concerned with trivialities. This principle is called “de minimis”. Negligible amounts of work can be disregarded before the specific rules are applied so that the claimant is not regarded as working on the day or days in question.

41146 Whether work on part of a day is negligible depends on its proportion to the normal working hours, the type of work and the effort required in relation to full normal duties1. When deciding if work is “de minimis”, the DM should consider the relevant case law.

Given that you have already raised it with JobCentre it may be safer t complete the PW1 form anyway. Just o the best you can. If you don't know - write 'I don't know'. ' I only expect to sell one/month'. You could even put 'It's a hobby really to try and keep me occupied but it seems I may occasionally be able to sell something'. If they want more information they'll come back.

Auti

calcotti said:

Auti said: Sorry what is de minimis?

See guidance for new style ESA

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/959415/admv3.pdf

V3019 Negligible work is considered under a general principle that the law is not concerned with trivialities. This principle is called “de minimis”. Negligible amounts of work can be disregarded before the specific rules are applied so that the claimant is not regarded as working on the day or days in question.

V3020 Whether work on part of a day is negligible depends on its proportion to the normal working hours, the type of work and the effort required in relation to full normal duties1. When deciding if work is “de minimis”, the DM should consider the relevant case law.

If you are on the old contribution based ESA see

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1065463/dmgch41.pdf

41145 Negligible work is considered under a general principle that the law is not concerned with trivialities. This principle is called “de minimis”. Negligible amounts of work can be disregarded before the specific rules are applied so that the claimant is not regarded as working on the day or days in question.

41146 Whether work on part of a day is negligible depends on its proportion to the normal working hours, the type of work and the effort required in relation to full normal duties1. When deciding if work is “de minimis”, the DM should consider the relevant case law.

Given that you have already raised it with JobCentre it may be safer t complete the PW1 form anyway. Just o the best you can. If you don't know - write 'I don't know'. ' I only expect to sell one/month'. You could even put 'It's a hobby really to try and keep me occupied but it seems I may occasionally be able to sell something'. If they want more information they'll come back.

Thank you Calcotti, I appreciate your reply. I will fill in the form and do the best I can. I will let you know what the outcome is. Thank you again.