Speeding ticket - didn't have time to slow down

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

Main reason, there was a car behind me and I just casually slowed down as I usually do.

Is it worth appealing? 

No worth appealing on those grounds unfortunately, a car behind doesn't justify breaking the speed limit in the eyes of the courts.

I'm not unsympathetic though, I pass through 100's cameras a week and many miles of average speed zones and there are specific ones on the variable limit motorways I've nicknamed "the money maker" because you can pass a gantry with no camera set to unrestricted and the next one with a camera will be set to as little as 40mph despite traffic conditions not justifying it.

TooManyPoints

From your photographs, you’ve no need to worry about whether the lower limit was in force when you joined the motorway. If the limit began at the gantry in your second photo, you would be expected to slow to the displayed limit by the time you passed it. You didn’t so you are guilty of speeding.

At this stage you have nothing to appeal. You are only be asked to provide the driver’s details. You must do that within the 28 days allowed  or you commit a separate more serious offence which carries six points. After you have made your response you should be offered a course for that speed (you are just within the threshold) provided you have not done one within the last three years. This will cost you about £90 and a couple of hours of your time. If you don’t fancy that or are ineligible you will receive a “Conditional offer of a fixed penalty”. You will not receive a FPN – that is something different. The offer will invite you to pay a penalty of £100 and have three points imposed on your driving record. The conditional part of it is that you do not currently have more than 8 points and that you submit your driving licence.

If you accept neither of those you will face court proceedings. Provided you are the Registered Keeper and received your Notice of Intended Prosecution within 14 days of the offence, nothing you have said suggests you have a defence. If you do plead not guilty but are convicted following a trial, you will see a fine of half a week’s income, a Victim Surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £34), three points and prosecution costs which will be a minimum of £620. 

Ath_Wat

Deleted_User said:

Where I entered - https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6863912,-0.2269368,3a,75y,160.79h,82.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPZfK1A5ZJudaYRCs64-hQQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Where I got flashed - https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6847587,-0.2128891,3a,75y,109.85h,97.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC_3WsL_dDCTSFQ3ivCuL0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Do you have that link right, because to me it looks like you had a long approach to the gantry where you must have had plenty of time to slow down , car behind you or not, unless you either can't read signs from the appropriate distance or were travelling far too quickly.  How many yards had you driven on the motorway rather than the entrance road before you came to the gantry?

Thrugelmir

Looks more a case of driving without due care and attention. The slowing traffic in the other lanes should have been an indication. 

user1977

Ath_Wat said:

Deleted_User said:

Where I entered - https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6863912,-0.2269368,3a,75y,160.79h,82.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPZfK1A5ZJudaYRCs64-hQQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Where I got flashed - https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6847587,-0.2128891,3a,75y,109.85h,97.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC_3WsL_dDCTSFQ3ivCuL0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Do you have that link right, because to me it looks like you had a long approach to the gantry where you must have had plenty of time to slow down , car behind you or not, unless you either can't read signs from the appropriate distance or were travelling far too quickly.  How many yards had you driven on the motorway rather than the entrance road before you came to the gantry?

And there's also an electronic sign on the slip road: https://goo.gl/maps/xPbpTYDMcqPko1if9 which I presume repeats any current limit on the main carriageway.

So is the OP certain that wasn't showing the lower limit?

jon81uk

user1977 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Deleted_User said:

Where I entered - https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6863912,-0.2269368,3a,75y,160.79h,82.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPZfK1A5ZJudaYRCs64-hQQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Where I got flashed - https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6847587,-0.2128891,3a,75y,109.85h,97.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC_3WsL_dDCTSFQ3ivCuL0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Do you have that link right, because to me it looks like you had a long approach to the gantry where you must have had plenty of time to slow down , car behind you or not, unless you either can't read signs from the appropriate distance or were travelling far too quickly.  How many yards had you driven on the motorway rather than the entrance road before you came to the gantry?

And there's also an electronic sign on the slip road: https://goo.gl/maps/xPbpTYDMcqPko1if9 which I presume repeats any current limit on the main carriageway.

So is the OP certain that wasn't showing the lower limit?

Doesn't matter if that sign was showing the lower limit, it is possible for it to be motorway speed at the slip road and then reduce to 50 at a gantry. Soon as you see the 50 sign, need to slow down to the speed.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

Main reason, there was a car behind me and I just casually slowed down as I usually do.

Is it worth appealing? 

No worth appealing on those grounds unfortunately, a car behind doesn't justify breaking the speed limit in the eyes of the courts.

I'm not unsympathetic though, I pass through 100's cameras a week and many miles of average speed zones and there are specific ones on the variable limit motorways I've nicknamed "the money maker" because you can pass a gantry with no camera set to unrestricted and the next one with a camera will be set to as little as 40mph despite traffic conditions not justifying it.

Traffic conditions where you are, are rarely the reason for the 40mph limit, it can be to slow traffic to allow time for something further ahead to clear, an accident to be fixed etc. People braking to deal with a traffic jam creates a ripple effect leading to larger jams for example, by slowing the approach, the traffic may clear in time and thus overall delays are refused. University of Bristol research showed something as simply as one driver's bad driving can cause traffic problems up to 50 miles away. Add on things like lorries overtaking each other, unnecessary lane changes and unnecessary sharp braking all cause congestion further back. Hence smart motorways lower the speed limit miles before to allow congestion to clear and further benefits drivers not also having to brake sharply as they are already going more slowly should they encounter traffic. The science of traffic is complex and is why it's done by experts, not people who think limits should not be in place just because the immediate surrounds are flowing.

[Deleted User]

Deleted_User said:

[Deleted User] said:

Deleted_User said:

Main reason, there was a car behind me and I just casually slowed down as I usually do.

Is it worth appealing? 

No worth appealing on those grounds unfortunately, a car behind doesn't justify breaking the speed limit in the eyes of the courts.

I'm not unsympathetic though, I pass through 100's cameras a week and many miles of average speed zones and there are specific ones on the variable limit motorways I've nicknamed "the money maker" because you can pass a gantry with no camera set to unrestricted and the next one with a camera will be set to as little as 40mph despite traffic conditions not justifying it.

Traffic conditions where you are, are rarely the reason for the 40mph limit, it can be to slow traffic to allow time for something further ahead to clear, an accident to be fixed etc. People braking to deal with a traffic jam creates a ripple effect leading to larger jams for example, by slowing the approach, the traffic may clear in time and thus overall delays are refused. University of Bristol research showed something as simply as one driver's bad driving can cause traffic problems up to 50 miles away. Add on things like lorries overtaking each other, unnecessary lane changes and unnecessary sharp braking all cause congestion further back. Hence smart motorways lower the speed limit miles before to allow congestion to clear and further benefits drivers not also having to brake sharply as they are already going more slowly should they encounter traffic. The science of traffic is complex and is why it's done by experts, not people who think limits should not be in place just because the immediate surrounds are flowing.

Sorry but having 70 mph then 0.5 miles later 40mph and then the variable speed limit zone ends so back to 70 doesn't make any sense to me. I've seen this happen frequently on a particular stretch of the M60 and always happens that the one with the camera is set to 40 / 50 mph when the one before is 70mph. On some occasions the traffic is so light I'm doing 70mph in the 1st lane, slow to 40mph for the camera then I'm back up to 70 still in the 1st lane.

According to what you said, braking causing traffic jams, so why restrict the speed so heavily for half a mile when there is light traffic? Why drop to 40/50 for 0.5 miles to the end of the variable speed zone so back up to 70 mph?

Why drop from 70 to 40 in just 0.5 miles, why not graduate over a few section 60 - 50 - 40 for example?

That isn't justified by science, it is pure revenue making. I'll still call that camera money maker.

One of the other cameras on the M60 Barton bridge clockwise is on a gantry that is at an angle to the approach so you can't actually see the speed limit until are really close to it, especially in bright sunshine - don't tell me that science placed the camera on that particular gantry for optimum queue control.