Divorce and property

Aggie23

Hi, sorry very long-winded. 
Background: I live with partner of about 4 years (lived together 1 years now, in his house, plus with one of my grown up children). He is a couple years off retirement age.  Me a while yet (about 15 years). Both of us are in low paid jobs. He was made redundant from his job of about 30 years about 10 years ago. Age against him, so took minimum wage job. Only job he could  get. How we met.
His house is co owned with his wife.  Married (inc time separated) about 38 years. Mortgage was paid off about 10 years ago. They separated about 13/14 years ago. She's been living with her new partner for maybe 8/10 years (rented). They rent a very nice house,  not bottom of ladder one. She is in a good job had been for past 25 years. She is about 10 years off retirement age. Her partner is in a good job too. She left her husband (my partner). No arguments/fights etc. There's been no animosity between them. Grown up kids (both in 30s). 
Throughout their marriage. My partner paid for all the bills, mortgage, etc. Even when she got a decent full-time job. Both always worked. She was p/t when kids were little.
At times he struggled with the upkeep of bills etc but being traditional, man/provider, etc. Her money was hers. She did pay for things she wanted like a conservatory, etc, and stuff for their kids. 
She now wants a divorce and from what one of his kids said, half of the house. House  worth about £120/130k.
If he had the money he would just give her it but he doesn't. Between us we only bring home about £1.8k per month. Before car payments and debts (on my part) I was left in it a bit of a mess from my ex, not married. All my earnings, are paying off debts and supporting a child at uni, etc, my ex (their dad) doesn't contribute,  never did (different story).
Neither of us are in a position to really get a mortgage to pay her off. He is retirement age in just over 2 years. With not a great private pension. Her  pension is much better (company pension scheme, long established company).
1. Do you think she would be able to kick him out of the house? He is really worried about this. As we can ill afford current rents, etc. Especially, when his retirement kicks in.
I was hoping to maybe go back to school for a couple of years, to hopefully be in a position to get a better job when he retires.
2. Do you think she would automatically get half?
I suggested maybe paying a little bit from what he can access from his pension (about £20k) and paying her so much per month for so many years until rest paid off. Not sure if that would be allowed, if it went to court.
What do you lovely people think might be the outcome of divorce for him?

Emmia

I think he needs proper legal advice, both financial positions will need to be considered and, her "better pension" will potentially come into play, as well as the property - it's not necessarily the case that she gets half.

74jax

So they own a house together, which he has lived in for 10 years or do they rent it out and he lives with you? 

Aggie23

They've owned the house together since married, 38 years ago. He has always lived in it. She got up and left about 14 years ago. Marriage grew apart, she met someone else. She got a rented property, initially on her own then past 8/10 years with her partner. 

ABFG

Caveat - I'm no lawyer but took a lot of advice during my own experience. Getting a divorce is easy if both sides agree to it. The financial settlement is normally more difficult and is the part that will need open discussion. Luckily it has been amicable.

Advice will be needed from a solicitor, especially as the long length of separation may affect how a court would view the assets. But the best thing is for them to agree a mutually acceptable outcome, either between themselves or via mediation, that the court can rubber stamp as their financial settlement. If both sides get good advice early it will shape expectations; it probably ends up cheaper in the long run. Both will need to make declarations of their assets and liabilities to do it properly.

However, before making promises on 'buying anyone out' my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) is that if they are still married and/or never had a financial settlement, all assets are on the table for fair (not 50/50 necessarily) division. Including the house, including the pensions - and a court would take into account needs vs salaries as well.

There may also be inheritance issues here too from her POV.

Aggie23

Emmia said:

I think he needs proper legal advice, both financial positions will need to be considered and, her "better pension" will potentially come into play, as well as the property - it's not necessarily the case that she gets half.

Yes, I think so too, he needs to seek legal advise. He is worried about the costs of that. He isn't bothered about gaining anything from her financially. He doesn't want her pension. He doesn't like conflict he just wants a quiet life. If he had £60k in the bank he would just give it to her. We lead a simple life. No holidays, etc. Frankly, like a lot of people, we don't have the money for much different.
He is mostly worried about being forced out of the house he's lived in for nearly 40 years. Especially, when he is due to hit retirement age in just over 2 years and will be on mostly a state pension. Getting a mortgage at his age is unlikely. My finances wouldn't qualify for one. Only money he has would be his private pension pot. If he uses that, he'll get penalised for taking before retirement (bar about £20k), plus then he'd have no pension, other than the state one. 

comeandgo

So you live with your partner in a property his wife has half ownership of.  You are lucky she does not charge you rent.  As ownership has continued she is entitled to half the value, same as she would be liable for half if your partner had sold and negative equity.  But, your partner should look at her pension, high chance the value of the pension could be used as leverage.

Aggie23

ABFG said:

Caveat - I'm no lawyer but took a lot of advice during my own experience. Getting a divorce is easy if both sides agree to it. The financial settlement is normally more difficult and is the part that will need open discussion. Luckily it has been amicable.

Advice will be needed from a solicitor, especially as the long length of separation may affect how a court would view the assets. But the best thing is for them to agree a mutually acceptable outcome, either between themselves or via mediation, that the court can rubber stamp as their financial settlement. If both sides get good advice early it will shape expectations; it probably ends up cheaper in the long run. Both will need to make declarations of their assets and liabilities to do it properly.

However, before making promises on 'buying anyone out' my understanding (and I stand to be corrected) is that if they are still married and/or never had a financial settlement, all assets are on the table for fair (not 50/50 necessarily) division. Including the house, including the pensions - and a court would take into account needs vs salaries as well.

There may also be inheritance issues here too from her POV.

Thank you for that. Yes, I agree he needs some proper legal advise. Re inheritance, all he would like is the house to go to their kids. 
Her inheritance intentions maybe different. 
From a comment one of his kids made, she wants the money 50/50 asap. 

Aggie23

comeandgo said:

So you live with your partner in a property his wife has half ownership of.  You are lucky she does not charge you rent.  As ownership has continued she is entitled to half the value, same as she would be liable for half if your partner had sold and negative equity.  But, your partner should look at her pension, high chance the value of the pension could be used as leverage.

I am very lucky. I was being crippled with rent and debts from my past relationship. He suggested I moved in with him, so I could stop all the extra hours I was doing. Covid affected my health and ability to work the hours and shifts I was (physical job). After another bout of it, even after vaccinations. My job is taking a big tole on my health. This is why I have been looking at going back to school to retrain. Better my job prospects and do a less physical job. I don't want to be a burden him. 
Up until moving in, I was always the main earner (had a partner who refused to work, after he was made unemployed when our kids were young). Children to provide for, now all grown up. Etc. 
I did get some advise re rent before agreeing to move. Apparently, she can't charge me rent for being there.

Mojisola

If they own the house as 'joint tenants', he should sever the tenancy to become 50/50 'tenants in common'.

If he died while the house was owned as joint tenants, she would own the whole property and you would have to leave.

If he changes the ownership, he can then leave his share of the house to you or his children.

You are in a very vulnerable position and should be making some provision for your own future.

Emmia

Aggie23 said:

Emmia said:

I think he needs proper legal advice, both financial positions will need to be considered and, her "better pension" will potentially come into play, as well as the property - it's not necessarily the case that she gets half.

Yes, I think so too, he needs to seek legal advise. He is worried about the costs of that. He isn't bothered about gaining anything from her financially. He doesn't want her pension. He doesn't like conflict he just wants a quiet life. If he had £60k in the bank he would just give it to her. We lead a simple life. No holidays, etc. Frankly, like a lot of people, we don't have the money for much different.
He is mostly worried about being forced out of the house he's lived in for nearly 40 years. Especially, when he is due to hit retirement age in just over 2 years and will be on mostly a state pension. Getting a mortgage at his age is unlikely. My finances wouldn't qualify for one. Only money he has would be his private pension pot. If he uses that, he'll get penalised for taking before retirement (bar about £20k), plus then he'd have no pension, other than the state one. 

Frankly if he'd just hand over the £60k without a financial settlement looking at all the assets then he's a bit of a mug (especially as his own pension provision is low) and she'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

He does realise that potentially the value of her pension could mean he owes her nothing, or a much smaller percentage of the property... please go and seek legal advice on this - and make sure that the divorce includes a full financial settlement. 

Does he have a will? If not, and he's not divorced then she'll probably get the lot if he dies (and you'll be homeless)

I've never needed it personally, but wikivorce is often mentioned on here when people are seeking advice 

https://divorce.wikivorce.com/forum-index