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Irritation about my due dilligence

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tim.ntf
tim.ntf Posts: 6 Forumite
Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
edited 18 April 2022 at 9:36PM in Consumer rights
EDIT: Thank you all very much indeed for your very useful repies. To be honest, I think that due to tiredness and recent difficult stuff, I have ended up making somewhat of a mess of the situation with the plumber. Since I initially posted this post, I have apologised to the plumber for saying things that I should not have said.


Hi Everyone

I would be very grateful indeed for all your opinions about a fairly general topic.

Whenever I purchase something I don't know much about, I usually like to know various details about it before making the purchase decision. However, unfortunately, the people I am dealing with can sometimes get irritated with me as a result. I would therefore like to know if I am doing anything wrong or if I can change the way I do it.

The following are extracts from an email conversation I have recently had with a plumber regarding a problem with the flush mechanism of a toilet that keeps getting stuck. The toilet is in a house in Jersey I have let to a tenant.

ME:
"I think that the long-term solution to the problem which emerged since your last visit to [REDACTED] is to replace the entire flushing mechanism with a one-button pneumatically activated flushing mechanism. As I expect you will know, this consists of a button connected via an air tube to the flushing mechanism."

"The toilet in my flat in London has a one-button pneumatically activated flushing mechanism and no matter how hard I press the button, I cannot break either the button or the flushing mechanism. I therefore think that such a flushing mechanism will be much more robust than the existing flushing mechanism at [REDACTED]."

"Would you be able to source and install a suitable one-button pneumatically activated flushing mechanism at [REDACTED]?"

THE PLUMBER:
"Thanks for getting back to me, yes I think it would be better to replace the flush valve for another type. The pneumatic type are excellent but are usually designed for concealed cisterns and I have never fitted one on a ceramic cistern and you need a lot of space behind the button for the piston plunger .There is another option to use a cable type we can get them in stock in Jersey. We have used them before and are a great replacement for the existing one. I look forward to hearing from you."

ME:
"Can you be sure that the cable type will be as difficult to break as the pneumatic type?"

"I would be very grateful if you could let me know the manufacturer and model number of your best example of the cable type so that I can do some research into it."

THE PLUMBER:
"The Company I checked out was Wolseley and it is the Marley Multiflush Dual Flush Valve, Product code F47456 and the trade cost is £45.42, I would add 10% + Labour at a rate of £50.00 per hour which would take a maximum of 2 hours."

"I don’t mean to be rude, but I really don’t have the time for this going back and forward as we are so busy, so if you want me to go ahead with this job, please let me know or you can maybe appoint another plumber."

"I am not one of these plumbers that rips people off, especially when it is elderly people, I am dealing with at [REDACTED] and if you ask [REDACTED] the Concierge Manager, she will confirm this."

ME:
"I am sorry if you don't like me asking these detailed questions about how best to sort out the problem. I am not, as you mentioned in your email, accusing you of being a plumber that rips people off. I am simply carrying out due diligence which I usually do with any product I am considering purchasing for a particular purpose. I want to be sure it is the best product for the job. You should not take offence when people carry out due diligence. I hope you can understand my point of view about this."
 
"I have looked at the Marley Multiflush and it seems perfect for the job. I would therefore like to go ahead with this. I will ask the son of my tenant to arrange a day and time for you to do this."

After reading the above extracts from the email conversation I have had with the plumber, are there any improvements you think I could make in the way I dealt with the situation?

I would be very grateful for any advice about this because I don't like irritating people but I want to be sure I get what I need in order to sort any problem out that I am trying to sort out.

Thank you very much

Kind regards

Tim


Comments

  • Lomast
    Lomast Posts: 872 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
    In my opinion unless you are willing to pay him his hourly rate to do the research you should be doing your due diligence with the manufacturer or wholesalers and telling tye plumber what to fit. 
    He has told you what he reccomends
  • theonlywayisup
    theonlywayisup Posts: 16,032 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    tim.ntf said:
    Hi Everyone

    I would be very grateful indeed for all your opinions about a fairly general topic.

    Whenever I purchase something I don't know much about, I usually like to know various details about it before making the purchase decision. However, unfortunately, the people I am dealing with can sometimes get irritated with me as a result. I would therefore like to know if I am doing anything wrong or if I can change the way I do it.

    The following are extracts from an email conversation I have recently had with a plumber regarding a problem with the flush mechanism of a toilet that keeps getting stuck. The toilet is in a house in Jersey I have let to a tenant.

    ME:
    "I think that the long-term solution to the problem which emerged since your last visit to [REDACTED] is to replace the entire flushing mechanism with a one-button pneumatically activated flushing mechanism. As I expect you will know, this consists of a button connected via an air tube to the flushing mechanism."

    "The toilet in my flat in London has a one-button pneumatically activated flushing mechanism and no matter how hard I press the button, I cannot break either the button or the flushing mechanism. I therefore think that such a flushing mechanism will be much more robust than the existing flushing mechanism at [REDACTED]."

    "Would you be able to source and install a suitable one-button pneumatically activated flushing mechanism at [REDACTED]?"

    THE PLUMBER:
    "Thanks for getting back to me, yes I think it would be better to replace the flush valve for another type. The pneumatic type are excellent but are usually designed for concealed cisterns and I have never fitted one on a ceramic cistern and you need a lot of space behind the button for the piston plunger .There is another option to use a cable type we can get them in stock in Jersey. We have used them before and are a great replacement for the existing one. I look forward to hearing from you."

    ME:
    "Can you be sure that the cable type will be as difficult to break as the pneumatic type?"

    "I would be very grateful if you could let me know the manufacturer and model number of your best example of the cable type so that I can do some research into it."

    THE PLUMBER:
    "The Company I checked out was Wolseley and it is the Marley Multiflush Dual Flush Valve, Product code F47456 and the trade cost is £45.42, I would add 10% + Labour at a rate of £50.00 per hour which would take a maximum of 2 hours."

    "I don’t mean to be rude, but I really don’t have the time for this going back and forward as we are so busy, so if you want me to go ahead with this job, please let me know or you can maybe appoint another plumber."

    "I am not one of these plumbers that rips people off, especially when it is elderly people, I am dealing with at [REDACTED] and if you ask [REDACTED] the Concierge Manager, she will confirm this."

    ME:
    "I am sorry if you don't like me asking these detailed questions about how best to sort out the problem. I am not, as you mentioned in your email, accusing you of being a plumber that rips people off. I am simply carrying out due diligence which I usually do with any product I am considering purchasing for a particular purpose. I want to be sure it is the best product for the job. You should not take offence when people carry out due diligence. I hope you can understand my point of view about this."
     
    "I have looked at the Marley Multiflush and it seems perfect for the job. I would therefore like to go ahead with this. I will ask the son of my tenant to arrange a day and time for you to do this."

    After reading the above extracts from the email conversation I have had with the plumber, are there any improvements you think I could make in the way I dealt with the situation?

    I would be very grateful for any advice about this because I don't like irritating people but I want to be sure I get what I need in order to sort any problem out that I am trying to sort out.

    Thank you very much

    Kind regards

    Tim

    I haven't read entire your post as it is too long.  But if I am looking at building/replacing/doing something I know little about, I do my research myself.  I don't question the person I am asking about it until I know the correct questions to ask. 

    I certainly don't tell them that they shouldn't take offence.  

    Do your 'due diligence' about the product and then apply the same to the workman you contract.  
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 18,262 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    That could have been much more concise.

    OP:
    Rather than repair, a complete new assembly would be better for the long term.  At another property, we have an XXX which seems to be very robust.  Would that be suitable?

    PLUMBER:
    The XXX is good, but a better product for this property in Jersey is the YYY.  It will be £yyy all in fitted.

    OP:
    Great, please go ahead.

    Given the scarcity of reliable trades people, it is best to keep a good one onside in the current climate.
  • cymruchris
    cymruchris Posts: 5,562 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    There is another option to use a cable type we can get them in stock in Jersey. We have used them before and are a great replacement for the existing one. I look forward to hearing from you."

    ME:
    "Can you be sure that the cable type will be as difficult to break as the pneumatic type?"


    They have already said they are great - and no doubt offer a basic warranty on their work. It wouldn't be in his or her interest to fit something that breaks a week later. So when they say it's good - it probably got their back up when you said 'Can you be sure?'. 

    Tradespeople are pretty busy at the moment - so you need to keep it short and to the point where possible. If they say it's good - you are free to do your own research - but going back with 'Are you sure?' probably wouldn't please many tradespeople (even if you are doing your 'due diligence'). 
  • Diamandis
    Diamandis Posts: 881 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 500 Posts Name Dropper
    You just need to be a bit more concise and make it clear you are actuallygoing to use him for the job earlier in the conversation, also asking if he was sure came across as a bit like you doubted him. If every plumber spent all day messaging customers back and forth they wouldn't be earning money.
  • comeandgo
    comeandgo Posts: 5,930 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You are making yourself into the customer from hell and tradesmen will soon stop replying to you and cross the street not to talk to you.  If you know your tradesmen, trust them.
  • tim.ntf
    tim.ntf Posts: 6 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    @Lomast, @theonlywayisup, @Grumpy_chap, @cymruchris, @Diamandis, @comeandgo Thank you all very much indeed for your very useful repies. To be honest, I think that due to tiredness and recent difficult stuff, I have ended up making somewhat of a mess of the situation with the plumber. Since I initially posted my original post, I have apologised to the plumber for saying things that I should not have said.

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